Organisations refusing to give their single sex spaces policy - David Lloyd for example

I can't describe what was done to me either. None of us can. You seem to think you are the only person who has experienced trauma. The only person who is physically disabled. Lots of us are. But aim your anger at the right place not fighting with other vulnerable women.

I have campaigned and achieved change for women in my area. I have done real good with that that will affect hundreds of women. I support nothing but calling my child whatever I like. You might not agree with it, fine. But don't you dare suggest you are doing more good by going after vulnerable women on a discussion board.

I can't describe what was done to me either. None of us can. You seem to think you are the only person who has experienced trauma. The only person who is physically disabled. Lots of us are. But aim your anger at the right place not fighting with other vulnerable women.

I have campaigned and achieved change for women in my area. I have done real good with that that will affect hundreds of women. I support nothing but calling my child whatever I like. You might not agree with it, fine. But don't you dare suggest you are doing more good by going after vulnerable women on a discussion board.

I said you were being combative with me.

And you may have done. Women like me on psychiatric wards did not. Noone spoke up for us as it didn't affect them. Women are speaking up now as it starts to affect them. And things were starting to get better? Maybe for you they were. All the women being SA on psych wards probably wouldn't agree. I'm glad you find this all so amusing with your 'males gotta male innit' but for many women like me it is not funny. If you are fighting the real villains then get on with it and stop targeting vulnerable women. What change have you personally made to women's situation, I wonder?

Don’t you dare try to do trauma trumps on me. When you KNOW I can’t describe what was done to me.

I am VERY sorry for what happened to you. Truly. I’m sorry.

I am at the gym because I’m becoming more and more disabled and it’s a vain hope to try to see if I can keep some mobility. I already walk with crutches and I’m having to use my chair a lot more and it’s hurting the fuck out of my shoulders especially my right one which I tore the rotator cuffs on. So I go to the gym to strengthen them. And I find swimming good because it’s gentle.

if you want to campaign about mixed sex wards in hospitals then do that. But doing so while you support calling trans identifying men by female pronouns is duplicitous

Why do you think I am being combative with Taztoy. I totally agree women need single sex spaces. And we had them until some sexist misogynist men decided they wanted into those spaces. Personally I believe anyone who follows the regressive and oppressive trans ideology is contributing to the removal of women’s rights. Women were suffering for years, and things were finally getting a bit better, but males gotta male innit? We are fighting the real villains, the males who decided they could be comes women and bully women into giving up their rights to single sex spaces.

Where men are allowed.

and I’ve explained why I can’t do that.

I can only talk about my gym. There is a family changing room with separate rooms containing changing area and shower. Then there are a single sex men's room and single sex women's room. The comment was about children running all over the women's changing room. Nothing to do with trans ideology.

I also have trauma from CSA. Psych wards have been mixed for years way before trans ideology, I have suffered multiple SA on a ward. But noone talks about that because it doesn't affect them. You seem naive to me.

Not sure why you are being combative with a woman that suffers like @Taztoyand believes women should have single sex spaces. But to suggest women haven't been suffering for years before trans ideology is naive. Maybe fight the real villains...the men?

I can only talk about my gym. There is a family changing room with separate rooms containing changing area and shower. Then there are a single sex men's room and single sex women's room. The comment was about children running all over the women's changing room. Nothing to do with trans ideology.

I also have trauma from CSA. Psych wards have been mixed for years way before trans ideology, I have suffered multiple SA on a ward. But noone talks about that because it doesn't affect them. You seem naive to me.

Not sure why you are being combative with a woman that suffers like @Taztoyand believes women should have single sex spaces. But to suggest women haven't been suffering for years before trans ideology is naive. Maybe fight the real villains...the men?

Well it kind of is. Because of the TRA pushback, more and more places are making facilities unisex. Which means no single sex spaces. So thanks to the evil trans ideology, women like @Taztoy suffer. And all because men decided they would prefer to be women. It’s not just toilets and changing rooms though is it? It’s hospital wards, prisons and rape crisis centres. The places where you don’t get “family changing”. You seem awfully naive

In the women's changing room.

I can’t go into a cubicle. The only place
left in the gym I go to is the open area.

where the actual Jeff am I supposed to go?

TRAs are determined yes.

But that's not relevant to a family changing room open to men and women.

I didn't. I said women with children could use the single cubicles in the family changing room if they wanted privacy. Not that someone with trauma could who presumably wouldn't be in the family changing room in the first place.

You don't need to keep explaining yourself. I understand trauma as I have it myself.

The family room is open to both sexes so I'd suggest not using that space if you don't want to be around men.

I've not said women should move aside. I've said women should have a single sex space.

But the trans ideology is determined to erode single sex spaces isn’t it? I mean, it’s the sexist, misogynistic men claiming to be women who demand access because “they are women”. If you accept any male can “live as a woman”, you open the door to this.

I didn't. I said women with children could use the single cubicles in the family changing room if they wanted privacy. Not that someone with trauma could who presumably wouldn't be in the family changing room in the first place.

You don't need to keep explaining yourself. I understand trauma as I have it myself.

The family room is open to both sexes so I'd suggest not using that space if you don't want to be around men.

I've not said women should move aside. I've said women should have a single sex space.

You said I (and people like me) could use a cubicle.

David Lloyd allow men into women’s single sex spaces if they identify as female.

I can’t describe what it will do to me to hear a man outside a door I’m in when I’m vulnerable.

I can’t tell who is a “genuine” transperson and who isn’t.

I won’t even be able to see them. I’ll hear their voice.

what if I’m changing in the space and a trans gender identifying man enters whilst I’m already in the open changing room getting changed? What am I supposed to do?

why is the answer always for women to move aside?

True, but they can use a cubicle so completely private.

Yes. Yes they will. Even claiming to be women. So how do women know which men are men claiming to be women and which men are men claiming to be men claiming to be women?
Of course theTRA are genuine transpeople. Why would they not be? they are genuine as anyone claiming a trans identity.

I would say you have a skewed view of how male people with transgender identities behave.

And I am sure you are aware that it is not up to you, or me, to arbitrate who is and isn’t ‘genuine’.

Do you really believe that? I don't. I've been in a situation where someone was pretending. Some men will do whatever they want to target women.

Well, I suppose for me my child not being able to accept their sex is what makes them trans. And honestly with the way men behave maybe this is part of the problem!

I agree, I hate the TRA movement. I don't believe those people are genuine, personally. I just wish people wouldn't assume I or my child have the views of the TRA movement. They have highjacked a very real difficulty for their nefarious aims, imo.

They don't sound genuine to me. Even if my child did not support single sex spaces she would be far too afraid of using the women's changing for fear of looks or even abuse (although this has always come from men.) She would always prefer to hide away in a cubicle.

But they are genuine. No one can say they’re not. We’ve been told soooo many times that no one would pretend to be trans and to believe people when they say they are trans. There is no “genuine” trans. There are only people who for some reason cannot accept their sex. I do feel sorry for your child, but unfortunately the TRA have made existing as a person with a trans identity a lot harder.

@UndertheCedartree DL, and others, allow men who identify as female to enter women’s single sex spaces.

these men do not have to have had any surgery or indeed be taking any hormones. They just have to say they’re female.

how do I know whether they are “genuine” trans people or not?

I can’t be behind a locked door with a man on the other side of it. I’ve talked about it before on here but as I say ad nauseum now even boring myself but I feel it is important to say it - I’m not allowed to describe why here as it is deemed by MNHQ to be too upsetting for others to read.

why should I have to leave a space that is ostensibly single sex for females because a man has decided he identifies as female and wants to use the female single sex space?