Adult daughter dating trans-identified male, struggling to navigate family concerns

Also to add: a few year's ago, the DD of a friend of mine dated a trans-identified man for a while. My friend was very tolerant, and would talk about how happy her DD was, but would also tell me - almost in the same breath - about how her DD's partner was very insecure and disliked her DD having other friends, and was constantly on the verge of serious self-harm. I remarked that maybe the mind-body split of his gender dysphoria was a symptom of deeper MH illness, but my friend was so into #bekind she didn't make the connection.

She was relieved when her DD and this TiM broke up, though!

It seems to me there are always deeper mental health & illness issues with trans-identified people. The fantasy belief that they're "born in the wrong body" is symptomatic of a deep split between mind & body. Your DD @BlueLegume may find that dealing with a deeply mentally ill girlfriend becomes a burden.

Good luck @BlueLegume My young relative doesn't live at all near to me, so I don't have to deal with this day to day. I try to separate out my familal affection for this person whatever they do, and my deep knowledge of feminism and women's history (like you I'm a second waver - I went to Women's Liberation conferences in my teens in the late 1970s) which forms my complete scepticism & rejection of extremist gender ideology.

A lot of young women have been denied their history as women (I teach this subject & I see it as giving back their history to young women), and don't realise how TRAs are driven by a masculinist aggressive misogyny.

But ... that doesn't help in the day to day. I think, if I were in your situation, I'd want to keep the relationship with my beloved daughter, and I'd try to see the spouting of gender ideology bollocks as youthful fanaticism

God knows, I subjected my own parents to enough of that when I was in my early 20s and discovering the world as a very wet-behind-the-ears adult.

Come here to vent & let off steam if you need to!

@CassOle, I have realised that TV programmes based around lies make me very uncomfortable. I'd almost rather have programmes about murders! But the sort of plot where, say, someone runs over a stranger in a genuine accident, and instead of fessing up they create a string of lies to hide what they've done, I find a difficult watch.

I go along with pronouns, as miminally as possible, but I've never been put on the spot about whether I think my child's TiM partner is a woman or a man, and I hope I'm not, because I don't think I could say an outright lie.

'I won’t be coerced into a lie.'

@BlueLegume This is where I am too.

I always try to be polite to people IRL and I have had many interesting conversations with people who disagree with me about different topics (including people with trans identities). I will not use wrong sex pronouns and I do not pretend that people have changed sex, and yet I can absolutely talk to people and leave on good terms. The walking on eggshells with people who are on the RSOH is mentally exhausting though.

I have a relative who is a fully paid up progressive left/RSOH and the utter lack of thought they have put into these things that they go along with (purely because they want to 'be a good person' as they have admitted) is shocking. They are someone who lies without mental burden though. I just can't do it.

I sometimes wonder if those who easily and willingly go along with wrong sex pronouns don't understand how hard lying is for other people.

How?

If they are members of the HoLs, they are nominated and go through a process. It is a title that reflects that position. In that way, it is based on material reality because they are in a position and doing a role.

That you do not agree with that political process doesn't make it in anyway comparable to a person who has a subjective belief that they are the opposite sex to the sex category of their body demanding that this belief is treated as if it is material reality. That they believe this about themselves is certainly material real, but what they believe is not in anyway material reality.

So, no. The members of the HoL is not comparable in the way that you are attempting to make it fit.

I still genuinely don't get your point. You're going to have to spell it out for me.

My daughter went out with a lad from the ages of 16 to 19 who had red flags all over the place. She eventually split with him, at which point things went very nasty and he ended up on a stalking charge and she got a restraining order on him.

Sobi do understand about our children making bad choices.

And yet there is often little we can do. We were concerned but didn't want to drive her away - i was scared she would go to live at his house for example. So we allowed him to come here where we could keep an eye on them.

It's hard.

Don't all members of the HoLs force their personal beliefs on us? None of them is elected.

The rude and obnoxious ones are those eliding people like me with those having cosmetic surgery.

There are plenty of procedures I would never consider for myself (Brazilian butt lift for one) but that doesn't mean those choosing to have them are mentally ill.

Bishops, as members of the Lords, get to force their personal beliefs on all of us.

Yeah don't go along with the retoric, they need to accept you have a different view point to them.Hopefully your daughter will see sense.

Just do this, it will probably fizzle out.Don't do anything to help it along if you dislike the partner.

The world is full of people whose life choices I do not agree with. That does not stop me getting along with them.
Just make this new partner a cup of tea and be pleasant and welcoming.

Regard them as mentally ill.

By being pleasant to them you are not buying into their life choices or negating your principles, you are simply being civilised.

Maybe agree to use he and him pronouns for your daughters sake even though you are firmly set in them still being a she.
Sometimes we have to put our feelings aside and pretend for the sake of our loved ones….

This is the crux of it though.
The OP is not 'firmly set in [the partner] still being a she.'; she IS a she. Saying otherwise for her DD's sake is mentally tiring. And, if the DD is saying a relationship with her is contingent on her using wrong pronouns, it is coercive control.
Also, putting feelings aside and pretending are, or can be, two separate things. I have experience of family members/friends of friends etc who I don't much like but have/had to spend time with sometimes. I can be civil and ask them some pleasantries, offer them tea etc, for the sake of harmony. That's not the same as pretending I like them if they or someone else asks, which is the equivalent of using wrong pronouns for this DD's partner.

EDITED to add bold

People who support trans can’t be swayed, just like you can’t on your beliefs.
I won’t say on which side of the fence I sit
as it is a very emotive subject (for both sides of the fence)…
If it helps maybe except that your daughter is bi-sexual, Treat her partner as a human being and just except that they are who they are. Maybe agree to use he and him pronouns for your daughters sake even though you are firmly set in them still being a she.
Sometimes we have to put our feelings aside and pretend for the sake of our loved ones…. And better your daughter is happy with a trans male than in an abusive relationship and unhappy.

There’s no advice that can be given here because you aren’t willing to move from your position. It has to be you that moves on this because you have precisely zero input into the relationship choices your adult daughter gets to make for herself

This. She's an adult, and you may not approve of her choice of partner, but she just like other adults in a relationship get to make their own choices and don't take well to their parents wading in and making it clear they disapprove.
Also you're just spewing out links to articles when you hear a different view, you're not listening and know where you stand, (fair enough) so not sure what you want to get out of this thread as it just seems like a way to say stuff like "cult!" "mutilation" "idealogy! etc. Kind of like an online version of those religious people in the middle of town that come at you trying to "convert" you .

No. They don't. I don't think it is comparable.

There’s no advice that can be given here because you aren’t willing to move from your position. It has to be you that moves on this because you have precisely zero input into the relationship choices your adult daughter gets to make for herself. Your choices are exactly 3:

1. try to accept your daughter’s partner for who they are, open yourself up to growth and maintain the best relationships you can with your daughter and her partner.
2. keep your opinions to yourself/lie if you have to and remain polite to your daughter’s partner. You will be able to maintain a relationship with your daughter, but it may not be in the best terms.
3. continue being offensive to your daughter and her partner. Continue to act like she’s done something dreadful to you personally and act like you should be able to dictate her relationships and then wait for her to inevitably cut you out of her life.

Your daughter’s life is her own, she hasn’t done anything to you and hasn’t ripped apart your family. It is your behaviour that has done that.

“What makes the two things different is quite simply that they are different”

Both involve people who are claiming to be something they objectively are not.

The false claims they are making have a negative effect on others.

If they are different, you will be able to explain coherently in what way they are different.

Please do so.

Cosmetic surgery as a female to remove healthy breasts because you believe you are a bloke is a MH issue.
Just because you have suffered Mh problems doesn't give you a free pass to be rude and obnoxious.