Adult daughter dating trans-identified male, struggling to navigate family concerns

There are some people in the World who believe being gay is a choice, not how people are born.

OP would, rightly, argue against that claim.

It is interesting then that she is so adamant that trans people are just confused gay people and that she closed to the notion that she could be wrong.

Trans people have always happened, as gay people have.

It's one thing to rail against the current narrative around trans rights (trans women are women/forced use of pronouns etc) but in truth, OP will never know how a trans person truly feels and we should all remain open to hearing people's life experiences.

If we shut down discussion, we get nowhere.

I hope your child finds their way in the World and is HAPPY, as I also wish for OP and her family.

Hi, you don’t need to patronise me and educate me. I understand the situation and I believe people can’t change sex.
But this is a situation we are in and I love my daughter with all my heart. She is a girl and uses a boys name. She is not going in men’s toilets and she is not telling people off for using the wrong pronouns.
it’s horrible hearing you all say that these kids are controlling and fantasising and how awful it would be for their child to be in a relationship with someone like mine.i know id much rather a trans kid than a hateful person.
its not easy all this. Maybe have consideration for those parents and trans people when you say they’re all mentally ill and coercive. It really isn’t as awful as you think it is, you can just have some consideration.

If you accept that your dd is gay then that’s what she is. You know, and she knows, and her partner knows that she is in a gay relationship. The fact that they are both in denial about the partners sex is a bit disturbing as it implies both a degree of coercive influence from the partner and a lack of common sense from your daughter, but assuming that your dd is capable of making independent decisions and isn’t vulnerable mentally then you need to take a deep breath and stop being so dramatic.

There is nothing you can do about it. Avoid using pronouns that stick in your throat about the partner ( can’t do much about the name they have chosen if it is overtly masculine) and try to focus on the quality of the relationship, is the partner kind, is your dd happy.

It's a bit more complicated than "Your daughter doesnt really love her family if she is willing to go along with this."

From my personal experience, I'm sure my son does love us (DW and me), but he seems to have persuaded himself, or been persuaded, that we don't really love him. If we "really" loved him, we would "accept her as she is". Which, of course, makes no sense whatever to us, knowing that we have a son not a daughter. But even those family members who happily use his choice of name and desired pronouns are just as out of touch with him. He seems to be hanging on to his family by a thread, despite the power of the ideology.

@scientista Does your child try to force their fantasy on other people? Do they insist that other people must use the pronouns they want? Are they using facilities that are not appropriate for their sex and making others uncomfortable? If not, crack on and live their best life. If they are then they are not a lovely child, they are a controlling bully.

When it comes to my own children what matters the most is that they’re with someone who is geuine , kind & respectful.
I think that should go without saying being honest.
Two people who bring the best out in one another .

TBF, you only want to agree with those who agree 🤷‍♀️

Your daughter doesn’t really love her family if she is willing to go along with this

this is a little extreme don’t you think. This thread has really been enlightening as a mother of a trans child. Some horrible people out there

Sadly this compliance was and is very damaging to other more vulnerable women
It's lead to males raping women in prison cells and hospital beds under the guise of trans inclusion. It's led to women losing jobs, friends and careers. I'm ok Jack means Jill battered the door down

Op this is absolutely about control - but you are not the one being controlling, only tras are that deluded. It's about your daughter trying to compel her family's speech and about her partner trying to control all of you. It is fair to say that you risk losing your daughter, she risks losing her family but in the posts I have read (not the lot) no-one has yet pointed that out. If you previously had a good relationship what impact do you think pointing that out would have? Would she be sufficiently distressed to question the compelled speech or not?

You are willing to welcome her partner, you are willing to avoid referring to her as female when possible. She wants to compel your family's speech even when she is not there. You've shown willingness to welcome the partner, she and her partner are showing zero respect for your family.

Your daughter doesnt really love her family if she is willing to go along with this.

I see what you mean...I'm Gen Z myself, currently at uni now and I limit my news exposure for my own mental health. I agree about the awful situation in the US and otter places for women (including the UK to some extent). I think it should be remembered that there are still a lot of women achieving in literature, music & other areas. We have more female MPs than ever etc. There are definitely a lot of serious problems for women now but I don't think it's all negative or a downward spiral.

It's also worth remembering that the US is a very different culture...the Roe situation, Trump etc are awful for women living there but UK abortion and other issues are not live wires here the way they are there, and not likely to be.

I agree with your point about progress: it's easier to cope with bad news when the overall trajectory seems more positive.

That's what I'm thinking. Hopefully yes, as this might suggest they're not forcing themselves to be happy with male characteristics.

Personally...I'm bisexual but only date women due to preference. I'm still attracted to men, though. So the DD could prefer to date women but still be bisexual.

This of course doesn't mean DD will be happy with the transition. I think it's important OP keeps communication open to support and remind her to not stay if she is very unhappy.

Absolutely all of that would have been happening too, but the part I mean is that we were less aware of it in daily life. It felt like being a woman was a good thing, it was improving rapidly, and we could be powerful. Today all my DD sees on the news is men aggressively destroying things and women being treated as subhuman (see the roll back on bodily autonomy in the US - it’s on the news an awful lot).

If I were OP I would just avoid pronouns wholly. She should not be forced to use 'he'.

Yes, I think if OP's DD is bisexual it's possible she's OK with this but still questionable. Lesbian, surely not.

Yes I do think it's easier with trans men. Most of them don't have a fetish and they generally don't seem to have the urge to violate people's spaces that transwomen often have

I agree stuff like Onlyfans is awful, online porn etc etc

Otoh I'm not fully convinced that 'financially/politically powerful men abusing women' wasn't happening in the 1980s... but I can see what you mean : it's good it's being exposed now at least somewhat but very depressing for those coming of age seeing it in the news.

Gisele Pelicot - surely rape and assault were happening in the 80s? MeToo at least publicised them more. But I understand how terrible that case was. Some men had vile fetishes before but the Internet enabled them to congregate and intensified it.

I think it's also fair to note that France has often been behind England in attitudes to sexual assault and women's rights, though that obviously doesn't explain this horrific case.

The OP is being honest, she has concerns over her adult daughters choices, I certainly don't think the OP is trying to hurt anyone but she has the right to stand by her thoughts and worries and she is absolutely right not to lie.

So heartbreaking reading this thread. It could be my child you are saying is mentally ill and feeling so sorry for the OP. My child is autistic yes. Happy yes. Trans yes. I feel so sad reading how awful so many people think it would be to have one of their kids be in a relationship with someone like my child who is a lovely kid

Your DD knows your views, and (at the moment) holds just as strong opposing ones. You will not influence her to change her mind so I think the best approach is to avoid discussing it at all.
All you really need to do is be polite and welcoming to her girlfriend and engage with her on a 'How's work?' 'Would you like more pasta Troy?" level. Her 'identity' need never really be discussed.
The pronoun thing is tricky. You can try to avoid using them at all, but personally I find with my friends DD who also wants to be treated as a man, I use 'he' when it would sound weird not to so as not to rock the boat.
I personally find it easier to do this with TIW, because I don't have any investment in protecting male terms for men (that's up to men) and don't really care what other women choose to call themselves.
I understand the principle of course. But this isn't an issue that will hang on how you choose to address this young woman, whereas your good relationship with your DD at this time might.

@saraclara Think about it. Why is the truth that 2 + 2 = 4, such a fundamental theme running through Orwell's 1984? Why did Winston write about how it is important to be able to say this? That all flows from this truth? Why was Winston tortured in Room 101 until he would say that 5 fingers were being held up when there were only 4?

You may think it is a harmless lie.

For others, can you not see that the cost of saying 'he' for a female is the ability to describe reality itself?

Star Trek: The Next Generation also used the same theme from 1984.

It's the lie that holds up the whole damn ideology. The lie that human beings can change sex.

I can't do it. Mammals cannot change sex, and human beings are mammals.

I really can't equate saying 'he' with telling a lie. A lie involves deceit. Your daughter knows who her partner is, so you're certainly not lying to her.

I can see why telling a friend of yours that your DD's partner is a man, would amount to a lie, but logically I can't see any basis for you referring them as he/him to his own partner, being a lie.

I certainly wouldn't see it as worth risking my relationship with my child.

OP I sympathise, I would find this very challenging too. It think it's best to try and avoid direct confrontation around yours and your DDs differing beliefs, but remain supportive with plenty of subtle reminders as to what constitutes a healthy relationship (no matter what the sexuality, sex or gender of the couple compromises).
Particularly that if a partner behaves in a controlling or coercive way, it's not really a healthy relationship.
Although not the same as your DD as she has begun with relationship when her partner has already begun transitioning, I have two friends who were were in happy lesbian relationships and their partners made a unilateral decision to transition and take cross sex hormones (and subsequently surgery). My friends found this very difficult, because these women gradually lost the characteristics to which my friends had been sexually attracted. They grew facial hair and body hair instead of having soft smooth skin, and removed their breasts. Although these women had always presented as 'butch', my friends found that fully masculine characteristics were not a turn on. However it was difficult for them to articulate that they were so unhappy with these changes, because "love is love, yeah? I'm still the same person, what's the difference?" or "I needed to do this for my mental health, do you not care about me?" But it turned out, after a while quite a lot was different. It was very difficult to break off when the narrative was "she's the unreasonable one, I needed to do this for my mental health and she's transphobic, what a despicable thing to be". But as it turns out, after the initial turmoil of the relationships ending and the dramatic threats of what breaking up might lead to, everyone ended up happier.
Bide your time and maybe over time your DD might decide of her own accord there's not enough in this relationship to keep her interested.
And gentle reinforcement that a good girlfriend/boyfriend is one that makes you happy and that doesn't require effort or changing yourself to make them happy, it should just happen naturally.