Uta Frith, women, autism, and what Dr Stock, Helen Lewis etc think...

I'm starting to see this kind of behaviour as a massive red flag in health and science in particular. We see it with gender ideology, with autism and other "neurodivergent" health conditions, we saw it with covid.

There is something really wrong going on in the medical community.

Changes in school expectations.

Computers are, I am sure, driving basic changes. Both because of parents being absorbed and then the children. I suspect it's going to be discovered that kids using a lot of these at a young age is no less creating brain changes than if they were taking drugs.

And I think you are right about increasing use of drugs. I am in Canada which is a little different as we have legalised cannabis over the last 10 years. It has in that time become ubiquitous, people treat them almost like a health food product, not smoking but as an edible, in beverages, or vapes. Including quite young people, and often supplied by parents. But it seems like culturally there is now an acceptance off all kinds of chemical and surgical augmentation as the norm. I've wondered what the effect of this will be long term., in terms of health - we really have no idea what such widespread drug use will do to children.

No, I don’t think that Frith was saying that either. But calling a group ‘hypersensitive’ can give the impression of ‘overly sensitive’. There’s certainly a drive to suggest that modern children lack resilience and give up too easily so words need to be chosen carefully to avoid misunderstanding I guess.

From Naomi Fisher

"We started a podcast with the deliberate aim of talking to a range of voices. We had had enough of the polarisation and mudslinging of social media.

We went to significant effort to seek out different perspectives. Our criterion was not whether they agreed with us, but whether we thought they would have an interesting angle to add. We made it clear in the podcast that the views of the guests did not necessarily represent those of the hosts.

From the start we wanted this to be a space where people explained their ideas so that the listener could understand and make up their own mind. We wanted to model openness and tolerance of disagreement.

When we released our first episode, with Dame Uta Frith, we quickly discovered why these conversations are impossible. She said things which some people disagreed with, and as a result they blamed us for platforming her. There was little reasoned discussion of her ideas, and a lot of flinging of mud. People I had worked with and who I respected recorded videos about the harm I was causing and how disappointed they were. Others made huge assumptions about what we, as interviewers thought, including dismissing the suffering of others and having a right wing agenda to cut benefits. Things that Uta had not said were attributed to her, and by association to us.

Immediately, our other podcast guests started to withdraw. People whose work I really respected and who had fascinating things to say backed away, scared perhaps that they too would be tainted by association. Their viewpoints were very different to Uta and that is exactly why we asked them. Just like when we interviewed Uta, we wanted to really hear and understand what they had to say. That won’t be possible now.

There’s something going on in the online autism world, and it’s not healthy. Many people are terrified to say what they think, for fear of the sort of thing that has happened to me this week. Useful and valid viewpoints are not being heard. Self-censuring is rife. Online shaming has been normalised. As a result, the growth of knowledge is being stifled.

If you disagree with what Uta Frith said and you’d like to come on our podcast, please email us via my website. We’d love to have you."

I didn't read the Frith article as saying that children who she called 'hypersensitive' just aren't trying hard enough.

I thought she was saying that for a variety of reasons, this could be considered a separate group from the diagnosis formerly known as Aspergers.

People do seem determined to read in to the Frith article what isn't there.

An interesting article in TES responding to Frith

”Frith uses “hypersensitivity” as a term, and I think this is worth exploring further, but associating hypersensitivity with the construct of resilience is dangerous because it implies that children are not trying hard enough or are not tough enough.
This misses the point. These children are trying too hard to be like others all the time, every day.
Research shows that autistic girls have a stronger drive for social engagement and a heightened response to social rejection, and, with that, a “natural” propensity to fit in, or mask.
Minimising the importance of understanding the drive for masking is, therefore, dangerous.
Girls and women who have not been able to develop a secure sense of self, an understanding and comfort with their own preferred ways of being, are at risk of increased vulnerability to control by others.”

Which would feed into the concerns about autistic girls adopting trans identities raised by others.

https://www.tes.com/magazine/analysis/general/why-uta-frith-wrong-about-girls-and-autism

That would suggest that current Y6 are the worst hit and that things are better for Y5 and below. I can’t say I’m getting that impression from primary colleagues?

this research has just been released

https://www.durham.ac.uk/news-events/latest-news/2026/03/covid-lockdowns-set-back-childrens-development-for-years/

a study found that covid lockdowns significantly impacted executive function

executive function is a significant difficulty for a wide range of conditions and also a side effect of early life trauma (or later to be honest) as well as autism and adhd.

@JamclagI know this must be a very challenging debate. Your descriptions do fit all my experiences of children with autism, especially your daughter. I think it’s important that this debate doesn’t lessen diagnosis at all. I do think that’s why people are so angry as they seem to think it will.

What do you think was the reason that secondary was so much harder and derailed them? I know secondary school is a big change for kids.

I find this interesting too. What was the bit he didn’t understand? Does he have any learning difficulties as well, or only autism?

We have discussed here on fwr the issues with data farming (?) I can’t remember the term - when academics quote and reference each other so much that a postured theory becomes fact with huge lists of references.

That would be "idea laundering":

Idea laundering--a very useful concept
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3872302-Idea-laundering-a-very-useful-concept

Peter Boghossian | WHAT IS IDEA LAUNDERING?

Grievance Studies Affair
grokipedia.com/page/Grievance_studies_affair

I don’t think so. This is definitely a more recent thing than kids being put in nurseries.

Not that it can be helped in practice but mightn’t some children experience so much stress (cortisol) /separation anxiety because of being put into nurseries at a young age that they become affected?
I have the impression this question is taboo.

Sorry this is long.
As a parent of two autistic young adults I'm finding this debate challenging - but I think it's important not to be defensive. I'm very aware of the comparisons with the trans debate and as GC feminist I really don't want to fall into the same trap many parents of sex dysphoric/gender non-conforming children have in terms of not being open to other explanations or theories for our children's pain/ symptoms.

I think my DC's story reflects the changes to the diagnostic criteria over the last couple of decades. My son and daughter were originally referred for assessment in the early '00 by the school ed psych when they were in nursery and primary school (completely unprompted by us) due to their atypical behaviours (DS - social/communication issues, stimming, hyper-sensitivity to noise, food issues, all consuming special interest. DD - developmental delays, lack of engagement, repetitive behaviour, unintelligible speech, echolalia).

Neither of them had melt downs or PDA. We called our DD our 'fairy child' as she was just quite otherworldly - appearing completely self-sufficient in her own world, limited 'sing song' speech, happy but often appearing completely oblivious to outside stimuli. (She has a NT twin so her unusual behaviour was perhaps even more noticeable in comparison.) Our DS hit all his developmental milestones - he fitted the 'little professor' description much more than his sister - early intense maths interest - but he was much more anxious, very literal and in a school environment had no clue how to 'play' or interact with other kids.

This was over two decades ago and at the time my son was diagnosed as having only 'traits' of Asperger's (probably because his interactions with adults were very good) a level of dyspraxia and executive function difficulties, my daughter was diagnosed with delayed speech and some attention and processing issues. They were given support sessions from speech therapists and ed psychs and other than being placed on the special educational needs register within school their childhoods continued in a fairly standard way - I think partly because they attended a very inclusive 'leafy' school that embraced individuality and had a strict anti-bullying policy.

It was secondary school that derailed them both completely - resulting in mental breakdowns, school refusal, therapy and medication. They developed debilitating co-morbidities - skin picking, emetophobia, GAD, clinical depression, suicide ideation. It was a horrendously difficult period for the whole family. Their senior school and university years were hugely impacted by their mental health struggles leading to a reassessment of their diagnoses in their late teens/early 20s - both were then diagnosed with the new label of autism.

But the thing is - they still got to university - one of them has a PhD. They're both employed - although part time due to their health needs - and although they both still live at home, they could, with support, live independently in the future. Their struggles have shaped their social lives and career choices meaning they may find it harder to meet partners and their jobs don't reflect their academic potential or creative abilities - which feels like a waste of talent but at least they have agency over their lives. This is completely different to the next generation of children being born into our extended family who have 'classic' autism, are non-verbal, incontinent, can't attend mainstream school and may never be employed or live independently. Probably because of witnessing this, both my DC feel the current 'autism spectrum' label is too broad and an Asperger's diagnosis would more accurately reflect their daily challenges compared to their cousins.

The only other thing I would say is, I really hope this debate doesn't play into the hands of those just wanting to justify reducing the already limited support higher functioning autists can access. Someone up thread talked about 'stealing' support from the less able/ more vulnerable. There really is very limited support for higher functioning adults as it is - my own children have found it practically impossible to access any meaningful support once they aged out of CAMHs - 90% of their support has always come from family anyway. The main benefits for them of a diagnosis has been a greater understanding of themselves, improved self esteem and the legal protection to ask for reasonable adjustments at work if needed. This hasn't cost the tax payer very much at all.

No I don’t think it’s just the curriculum. But a tougher and more fast paced curriculum at the same time as increasing Sen will mean more struggle more quickly.

I expect it’s multi factorial.

one gp I know said foetal drug syndrome was on the increase. (And that can be due to either parent.) There may be other reasons we don’t know about.

There was news this week that life expectancy is dropping in the U.K. too. We aren’t as healthy as we once were.

I’m in Ireland where the curriculum is different and there has also been an explosion in SEN. So I’d agree with you. Children start school later, usually at about 5 (depending on birthdays) and are then in ‘Infants’ for two years where play is viewed as central to achieving pedagogical goals.

Teachers definitely report an increased inability to concentrate in children.

I don't think the curriculum is enough to explain the explosion in SEN. Covid possibly contributes, social media definitely does. Inability to concentrate for any length of time is widespread.

That's really interesting that they got a dyspraxia diagnosis despite being very socially able if one of the listed symptoms is issues in social situations. Also very interesting about the author not knowing she had autism therefore possible conflating her symptoms of autism with dyspraxia.

This area seems very confusing. Reading a list of symptoms with physical issues for dyspraxia then emotional problems also being in there seems quite random!

Oh I’d 💯 agree.

Around the same time as the change in DSM for autism in 2013, the tories completely changed the curriculum.

In was very surprised to see a lot that used to be in ks2 taken down to ks1. The arts curriculums shrank and as schools had to write the content (previously there was gov led QCA content to follow if you wished, which most did) they saw it as “lesser.” I also remember really good speaking and listening areas of the literacy curriculum disappear in favour of more grammar. Some of which even colleagues who did English at uni struggled with.

Even a decade before this, older colleagues were saying there wasn’t enough play going on in ks1 and we were looking at ways to keep it going whilst meeting curriculum requirements. This was a relatively deprived area. Children were staring school barely able to talk. Sure start was very much needed and I knew did a lot.

She questions if it’s the system that’s wrong, expecting too much of young children too early and then not allowing them to develop at their own rates enough in the early years.

This, this and this again. And not only in early years.

She also has a number of sensory issues - as a child she had to be taken out of the building by a TA before the fire alarm tests each week as it hurt her ears so much and she is fussy about food - needs to be separate and not mixed up.

Interesting to see the conversation moving to dyspraxia - I think it is very much the Cinderella of conditions as there never seems to be much research into it beyond the OT side. I know Professor Amanda Kirby did quite a lot of work looking at how dyspraxic DC process - which is often quite different to ND children. DD1 is dyspraxic she displays most of the classic "clumsy child" symptoms (which aren't helped by her being hypermobile...) but what I find most fascinating is how her brain works - so she doesn't always get the obvious, her thinking in maths is basically weird and she doesn't take anything in if she has to read in silence (so needed own room for exams). She also cannot recount to you what she did in a physical task - a nightmare for GCSE science as she could recount an experiment she had watched her teacher do but couldn't if she had done it herself. I'm not sure that even now she could tell me how she makes a cup of tea or a bowl of pasta.

She went to specialist music school for sixth form and the SENCO there said that a surprising number of the pupils there were dyspraxic.

I know a couple of people who have dyspraxia (DCD) and they’re not autistic. Very socially able, no repetitive behaviours, but will manage to find the smallest imperfection on a path and fall over it. My autistic son also has dyspraxia though, and I think they do often co-exist.

I know when my son got his DCD diagnosis (pre his autism diagnosis) I read a well-regarded book on dyspraxia that listed many social effects too. I subsequently found out the author had been diagnosed with autism later on (ie after she had written the book) so I did wonder how many of the examples listed in her book were ‘true’ dyspraxia iyswim. I do think the fact that these conditions overlap to a degree caused confusion, or at least it did two or three decades ago. Not sure of the current situation.

Apparently dyspraxia is still a clear diagnosis; pre teaching I did once support a child in mainstream who was very dyspraxic (diagnosed as such) but certainly wouldn’t have been seen as autistic then. Perhaps now under the new dsm? His communication wasn’t affected and was very witty. Possibly inattentive adhd but coordination was a challenge for him. But I’m in SEND and probably all our children have a level of dyspraxia.

Sensory processing disorder is another one that seems to have huge overlaps with both. But I think as a clear diagnosis that stopped a long time ago. A relative in another country was diagnosed with this but she’s also clearly autistic in a very classic, Asperger’s sense, not diagnosed . Her physical difficulties were clear from a young age though and they needed to be identified to access OT therapies through insurance. As a result she had much, much more input than a child would here.

At the end of the day current diagnosis is chasing the right settings for a child.

I’ve just seen Naomi shared a stat that 43% of children in Scotland have an identified SEN. She questions if it’s the system that’s wrong, expecting too much of young children too early and then not allowing them to develop at their own rates enough in the early years.