Girls Using Walking Sticks

Yes, your description is exactly what FND is. And it is also all in the mind. It’s not an actual issue with nerve signalling. There are no defective nerves. It’s a level of consciousness that it impacting the processing of those signals. This can be objectively demonstrated in people with FND. Nerve conduction tests can show the nerves are working perfectly fine. In someone who says they are blind, they can undergo a test called ERG which demonstrates perfectly good signals reaching their brain from their eyes. An EEG can be done during supposed seizure activity and demonstrate clearly that they are pseudo-seizures.

The “signalling” description you use is just how to help people with FND understand and accept their condition. It makes sense. It helps people make sense. The anxious brain gives us gut symptoms. In extreme situations there is fight/flight, a physiological response to trauma, and so on. When it is explained that the higher brain can impact the body through various mechanisms it helps people accept and understand their condition. But there is no actual problem with the nerves; not only can no problem with nerves be demonstrated, it can be demonstrated that nerves are functioning normally, from an objective sense.

What they experience is real, but there is still no physical problem. “Functional” means their body functions are affected, but it’s also a euphemism for “no actual neurological disease”.

This is the worst consequence of trends. The people most in need suffer.

Mind you, “young” seems to mean under fifty.

Reported recently

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crepdjdj0z4o

But you did have something wrong. These people did not.

Where did you pick up that cancer in young people was increasing alarmingly? Not heard that before.

This is a really ignorant post.

You cannot self diagnose your way into PIP or any other benefits. Its a long difficult road of trying to collate enough evidence of how your disability affects you which is very difficult if it is fluctuating, and which n all probability will be denied first time as most pip claims are.

You don't just write 'I've decided I've got POTS, where's my cheque? And off you go, quids in! FFS! I have, so far, not even been able to gather enough evidence for a blue badge, which is a much lower threshold. But I'm too sick to work.

This was my point upthread. Yes, we should investigate this phenomena of young women identifying as disabled if it is genuinely happening, not least to make sure they are enabled to live their lives to the full, but at the same time can we please take care to not make peoples lives, who are living with genuine disabilities, harder than they need to be?

For some readers it seems to be a very short hop from 'some people are using walking sticks when they have no need' to 'the country can't afford all these fraudulent benefits claims' - one doesn't mean the other is happening!

Its not the same.

But, crucially, you don't know which of these the consultant was talking about when they told you some people seem disappointed they haven't got any diagnosis.

Neither you, nor the consultant can speak to the contents of those patients minds. Its a hell of an assumption. And now its been pointed out that you're making it, you're trying to weasel out of it by saying 'of course, I only meant the people in x group not y'. You have no way of knowing, neither does the consultant, which group the people you were casually talking about were actually in.

Its relevant because its a massive, ableist assumption that harms genuinely sick people and instead of acknowledging that, you're doubling down. Which is frustrating.

It kind of is though. On that long journey I had various tests for various conditions and I did find it hard when they came back negative as I wanted answers.

Yes exactly. If this is happening it will have a very serious impact on the credibility of people who are genuinely disabled and their ability to convince others to make accommodations that they need.

And to all the people who are saying that this thread is hurtful and we should not be asking questions because it makes people with genuine disabilities feel bad - did you have the same qualms when people started saying that there might be a gender dysphoria social contagion? Did you worry about how the people who had genuine gender dysphoria and how it might make them feel? Or did you think that it was too significant and too harmful to ignore?

Surely large numbers of girls pretending that they are in some way disabled will do the disabled no good in the long run ?

and the idea that suddenly we have a lot of seriously ill young women - but not older women , not males, and not with an increase in an diagnoses , does suggest fashion or social contagion

But I wasn’t talking about people being relived to find their answer, it was about people being disappointed to be told they were ok. It’s not the same.

Perhaps. But when you know something isn't right with your body you are desperate for an answer that will help you make sense of it and help you learn how best to manage the symptoms you are struggling with. Getting a diagnosis after 20 years of being ill was a very happy moment for me. Not because I wanted to be ill. And certainly not because I wanted to have a serious and life threatening neuro-muscular junction disorder. But because I could finally make sense of all my struggles and even more importantly I could learn how to manage my symptoms both through medication and pacing.
Later came the sadness that I haven't responded well to the treatments that put some people in remission, but yes the primary initial emotion was relief. Anyone who doesn't understand that clearly hasn't spent decades battling disabling symptoms without a diagnosis

I agree - I’m finding all these judgemental comments on here quite upsetting.
I have a lupus, plus hip replacements, fibromyalgia diagnosed by a rheumatologist and I’m deaf. I’ve been in a wheelchair, on crutches and had to use lifts sometimes. I’ve got a sunflower lanyard, a badge to ask people to offer me a seat on the tube and a blue badge - I avoid using them if I don’t need them.
But to most people I look fine and some days I am fine, but my life is very restricted since I became ill.
If these youngsters need sticks or other aids, they’re not hurting anyone else, so maybe we should just ‘be kind’ and stop being so horribly prejudiced about disabilities.

I'm saying that we need more funding for such illnesses to ensure we have the ability to diagnose.

From my experience, getting benefits for such illnesses...even a blue badge without PIP, requires a good deal of evidence from consultants which are incredibly hard to come by.

I'm not saying give anyone who says they have a chronic illness benefits without any evidence. I would like to see many more specialists and more training for GPs but that's a whole other conversation (read what George Monbiot has written on the subject) .. I am saying that assuming people are faking does huge damage to already vulnerable people. This is just a hypothesis but one that feeds into the anti disability 'benefit scrounger' rhetoric going on. It's awful but will sell papers etc.

There's no test.

That's the problem, isn't it? The alternative to treating all young women as if their symptoms are psychosomatic (which I think is what you're suggesting I am doing, or that Stock is doing) is to treat them all as if they have a genuine illness. Which is also problematic, particularly if it means that as a society we have to fork out large amounts in benefit payments.

I work in a university and have still never seen this 'phenomenon' personally.

Why would you assume FND for all these people @NotBadConsidering ? Many people with MEcfs have been misdiagnosed with fND I believe. So that's complicated to untangle too.

@RoyalCorgi MEcfs is a real disorder that is massively underfunded in research. People with it have suffered medical negligence and scandalous 'treatment' that caused and continues to cause people harm. It is really hard to get a diagnosis beyond a GP and many GPs are badly informed on MEcfs. Some NHS trusts have no MEcfs service at all or no consultants. This being the case, how can anyone point out that symptoms aren't rooted in real bodily disorders? If some are faking as you suggest as part of some social contagion, how on earth is this not going to damage people who have genuine illnesses and disabilities?

So you're saying that some people saying they have MEcfs or fibromyalgia or long covid or POTS or Heds (all of which often comes together/overlap) have real symptoms but it is psychosomatic? But people who actually have these conditions have also been told it is psychosomatic by the medical profession (disproved and good indicators now via the decodeME research). So are we to treat everyone who has such an illness as a youngster as someone in a trend feigning the illness or do we believe people? There's no test.

As someone up thread said, by all means carry out legitimate research on social contagion but naming individuals and having yet more anti disability narrative in the press is really damaging for very vulnerable people.

I found Stock's article really disappointing and concerning. A breezy dismissal and mean spirited. I might not like the way identity politics has inveigled it's way into this area too. I'm mid fifties and do not enjoy naval gazing and endless tiktok style attention seeking, but I am very concerned about this narrative around young women .. I think it is not the take I would want to see from older feminists.

But that's happening too, and the two phenomena aren't unconnected.

And girls/young women appear particularly susceptible to them. Tourette's symptoms were prevalent during lockdown, apparently. There have also been epidemics of fainting in some societies.

It doesn't mean that people are faking the symptoms, just that they are contagious and people can have them even if there is no organic cause. It's an interesting phenomenon, and not easy to explain.

The difficulty - as we've seen here - is that if anyone dares point out that these symptoms aren't rooted in real bodily disorders, a bunch of people will say that genuinely disabled people are being accused of faking. Which isn't the case.

IKWYM. Are people genuinely going into disabled toilets because they can't fit themselves and their walking sticks into ordinary cubicles, though? I've never seen this, personally, which isn't to say it's not happening, but I'm curious now as my own stick is very slim and in no way hampers me from getting into a loo cubicle... 🤔

lots of trends that catch on and become a
social contagion: trans, self harm, glasses, tics, walking sticks.

I'm very late to the thread, and only skimmed it, but I find it fascinating we are back to another trend. Several years ago (over a decade) my DD's school saw a huge ramp up of girls wearing glasses. Non were prescription, some didn't even have glass in them just the frame, but about 30% of years 7,8 and 9 girls started wearing these funky, beautifully coloured frames, think emerald green, blood red, turquoise, crimson . There was no change in the ratio of boys wearing glasses. DDs friends admitted they were just cool to wear.

I think some people want to have a diagnosis, because they feel terrible/ have disabling symptoms abs they want to know that:
-they aren't going mad

• the Dr believes them and can see it too
• there is something that can then be done to fix it.

There's nothing worse than feeling terrible and being told all your tests are normal. Because that destroys any hope that you can be fixed.

I don't know if this is how you intended it, but it sounds like you're saying FND is 'all in the mind'.

I don't believe that is the case. Its a neurological condition where the nerve signals are not being transmitted properly - so you could have limbs which are, in themselves, fine, but they don't work because of a network issue between the limb and the brain.

The 'functional' means a change in the function of a body part, rather than in its structure, ie looks fine but doesn't work.

Maybe that's what you meant? Its not clear from your post. You seem to be saying that the 'functional' part means there's no actual, real problem, and I don't believe that's the case.

My DD was using a stick up until a few weeks ago - but after a diagnosis of seronegative inflammatory arthritis has now been put on methotrexate and a steroid taper and is currently able to manage without.

Once the steroid taper has finished she may need to use it again depending on how well the methotrexate has been working underneath.

If anyone questions I guess she can just show them her three times the normal size knee and ask how she could be faking that!