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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Butches against transpohobia

804 replies

Catsanfan · 24/10/2023 16:09

I saw a woman wearing a T shirt saying 'Butches against transphobia' today. It astounds me that some lesbians would think that way. I wonder what she would do if presented with a penis on a date?

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/10/2023 22:48

I can't even be bothered with the bad faith disingenuous takes of this poster. They've refused to take these points on board every time, then pop up with this as if it's a gotcha. It's only tangentially related to the thread, but it's all they have.

MargotBamborough · 24/10/2023 22:46

suggestionsplease1 · 24/10/2023 22:39

Is the data I referred to which was released 4 months ago not present-tense enough for you?

Well less than four months ago women attending a peaceful women's rights event in New Zealand were attacked by an angry mob, the police were nowhere to be seen, the Prime Minister praised the angry mob on live television, the British woman invited to be the guest speaker had to leave the country due to fears for her own personal safety, and the country's mainstream media subsequently defamed her across a number of platforms whilst making zero mention of the men who assaulted her and other women's rights campaigners.

So I'd say it was time for a review.

MargotBamborough · 24/10/2023 22:43

suggestionsplease1 · 24/10/2023 22:35

Well I'm not sure why you think you know better than the countries who have been leading the way in women's equality and well-being for years, and have continued their excellent track record on these measures despite their decisions to implement policies of self ID, but there we have it.

Still no comment about how New Zealand is so high up in the rankings despite having the highest domestic violence rate of any country in the OECD?

catduckgoose · 24/10/2023 22:43

JaneGainsborough · 24/10/2023 22:06

It's no point arguing with these people. It isn't enough for them to live and let live, they want to insist that everyone has the same opinions that they do, hence the thread being started in the first place. I wouldn't waste your energy.

Live and let live would be great. Much, much better than the eradication of all female-only spaces and language, done solely to please the desires of men.

suggestionsplease1 · 24/10/2023 22:39

SpiderMaam · 24/10/2023 22:36

Again, past tense.

Is the data I referred to which was released 4 months ago not present-tense enough for you?

SpiderMaam · 24/10/2023 22:36

suggestionsplease1 · 24/10/2023 22:35

Well I'm not sure why you think you know better than the countries who have been leading the way in women's equality and well-being for years, and have continued their excellent track record on these measures despite their decisions to implement policies of self ID, but there we have it.

Again, past tense.

suggestionsplease1 · 24/10/2023 22:35

MargotBamborough · 24/10/2023 22:25

Based on criteria that they are apparently pulling out of their own arses.

Not sure why you think "ideologically captured organisations rate ideologically captured countries highly for women's rights based on a definition of woman that they have made up and criteria that they have also made up" is some big mic drop moment.

Edited

Well I'm not sure why you think you know better than the countries who have been leading the way in women's equality and well-being for years, and have continued their excellent track record on these measures despite their decisions to implement policies of self ID, but there we have it.

MargotBamborough · 24/10/2023 22:27

ArabellaScott · 24/10/2023 22:15

Hormones, Margot! It's all about hormones!

A transwoman who isn't taking estrogen is just a bloke, according to JaneGainsborough.

So if my husband had taken my HCG injection he would actually have been pregnant then.

Good to know.

SpiderMaam · 24/10/2023 22:27

JaneGainsborough · 24/10/2023 22:06

It's no point arguing with these people. It isn't enough for them to live and let live, they want to insist that everyone has the same opinions that they do, hence the thread being started in the first place. I wouldn't waste your energy.

You can’t ‘live and let live’ when you are being colonised!

If men with lady-feelz go back to calling themselves transsexuals, that would allow some space for this live and let live stuff you speak of.

But as it is, you are espousing luxury beliefs that most of us cannot afford to hold.

MargotBamborough · 24/10/2023 22:25

suggestionsplease1 · 24/10/2023 22:18

And yet they in charge of countries that have the highest rates of wellbeing and outcomes for women.

Some clowns, eh?

Based on criteria that they are apparently pulling out of their own arses.

Not sure why you think "ideologically captured organisations rate ideologically captured countries highly for women's rights based on a definition of woman that they have made up and criteria that they have also made up" is some big mic drop moment.

Rainonatent · 24/10/2023 22:25

Hahaha I just googled that person, as a lesbian, literally no lesbian would find him attractive, it’s v clearly a male.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/10/2023 22:24

New Zealand is ranked as the worst developed country in the OECD for family violence.

SpiderMaam · 24/10/2023 22:23

suggestionsplease1 · 24/10/2023 22:18

And yet they in charge of countries that have the highest rates of wellbeing and outcomes for women.

Some clowns, eh?

Past tense though, eh?

suggestionsplease1 · 24/10/2023 22:18

MargotBamborough · 24/10/2023 22:04

If they think a woman can have a penis then yes, I'm confident I do know better than them all. Talk about putting the clowns in charge of the circus.

And yet they in charge of countries that have the highest rates of wellbeing and outcomes for women.

Some clowns, eh?

lifeturnsonadime · 24/10/2023 22:18

JaneGainsborough · 24/10/2023 22:06

It's no point arguing with these people. It isn't enough for them to live and let live, they want to insist that everyone has the same opinions that they do, hence the thread being started in the first place. I wouldn't waste your energy.

I don't think you identify as a comedian but you're pretty funny!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/10/2023 22:16

I don't have a 'belief' system.

So you don't think a small group of male people should be considered women?

ArabellaScott · 24/10/2023 22:15

Hormones, Margot! It's all about hormones!

A transwoman who isn't taking estrogen is just a bloke, according to JaneGainsborough.

suggestionsplease1 · 24/10/2023 22:15

Waitwhat23 · 24/10/2023 21:55

As well as the countless times that it has been pointed out that one of these much vaunted 'top 4' countries is one of the worst in the world for domestic violence against women.

goodshepherd.org.nz/economic-harm/new-zealand-family-violence-and-economic-harm-statistics/#:~:text=New%20Zealand%20is%20ranked%20as,violence%20episode%20every%204%20minutes

Here is some data from the WHO Global Database on Prevalence of Violence against Women:

https://vaw-data.srhr.org/

You can see the heat map on the bottom of the page which will enable an easy comparison between New Zealand and other countries

Homepage | Violence against women data

VAW Prevalence Data

https://vaw-data.srhr.org/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/10/2023 22:15

It's no point arguing with these people.

You don't have any argument. You've made no rational defence of your ideology.

MargotBamborough · 24/10/2023 22:12

JaneGainsborough · 24/10/2023 22:06

It's no point arguing with these people. It isn't enough for them to live and let live, they want to insist that everyone has the same opinions that they do, hence the thread being started in the first place. I wouldn't waste your energy.

We aren't objecting to people having different opinions. We are objecting to people who want to redefine us without our consent and give away our rights.

Any update on that definition of femininity, by the way? What kind of femininity do Jill and Jane share, which Ken does not?

JaneGainsborough · 24/10/2023 22:06

wordler · 24/10/2023 22:00

I don't have a 'belief' system. I'm a straight woman who doesn't mind referring to myself as cis if it helps make things clearer in a conversation where there may be multiple ways of describing different people.

My point was that it makes sense to have ways to describe particular sexual preferences so that everyone is clear about what they are looking for before any awkward or upsetting situation occurs.

And that was in response to PP who said that all we need is straight, homosexual or bi. I don't think that works now on the dating scene.

It's no point arguing with these people. It isn't enough for them to live and let live, they want to insist that everyone has the same opinions that they do, hence the thread being started in the first place. I wouldn't waste your energy.

MargotBamborough · 24/10/2023 22:06

wordler · 24/10/2023 22:00

I don't have a 'belief' system. I'm a straight woman who doesn't mind referring to myself as cis if it helps make things clearer in a conversation where there may be multiple ways of describing different people.

My point was that it makes sense to have ways to describe particular sexual preferences so that everyone is clear about what they are looking for before any awkward or upsetting situation occurs.

And that was in response to PP who said that all we need is straight, homosexual or bi. I don't think that works now on the dating scene.

Do you believe trans women are women?

If yes then you have a belief system and use of the word "cis" is one of the markers of that belief system.

If you don't believe trans women are women then why use the language of a belief system you don't share?

MargotBamborough · 24/10/2023 22:04

suggestionsplease1 · 24/10/2023 21:42

This is data that is cited by governments, health organisations and women's rights organisations internationally.

But I guess you know better than them all?

If they think a woman can have a penis then yes, I'm confident I do know better than them all. Talk about putting the clowns in charge of the circus.

wordler · 24/10/2023 22:00

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/10/2023 21:45

most people typing on a phone in a short break it's easier to use a shorthand.

It's nice to respect people though and not impose your belief system on them. I manage to talk about what I want to about sex and gender without either using disputed neologisms, or "misgendering" (because of the talk guidelines).

I don't have a 'belief' system. I'm a straight woman who doesn't mind referring to myself as cis if it helps make things clearer in a conversation where there may be multiple ways of describing different people.

My point was that it makes sense to have ways to describe particular sexual preferences so that everyone is clear about what they are looking for before any awkward or upsetting situation occurs.

And that was in response to PP who said that all we need is straight, homosexual or bi. I don't think that works now on the dating scene.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/10/2023 21:57

Yep

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