Butches against transpohobia

Oh look, someone who follows a regressive misogynist ideology is calling women, who disagree, hysterical. First time in history this has happened.

Ah sorry I misunderstood @tobee!

Sorry, to clarify, if anyone's interested, I meant it'STILL very much a "niche viewpoint" that trans women are a subset of women. It is NOT a niche viewpoint that trans women are in fact males.

I confused myself there!

So, by that definition, if a lesbian woman sleeps with another woman who secretly identifies as a man, but they don’t tell her, is she now bi and she doesn’t know it?!

What if I sleep with a man and he doesn’t tell me he identifies as a cat - have I committed bestiality?!

Or is it all just a load of bollocks. Male ones.

Deleting duplicate.

I also think and hope that in future we will be able to "conscientiously object" to calling males women and using female pronouns. I don't share that belief.

Do I think that if Ken wants to dress like Barbie, be called Barbie by friends and family and live life in a way generally identified as a female gender stereotype - yes I do.

They and their friends and family are free to do this in a free country. I think you are very aware that's not all that's being asked.

I honestly don’t know what you are asking here?

Do I think there should be single sex spaces and single sex provisions for certain situations and areas - yes I do.

Do I think that if Ken wants to dress like Barbie, be called Barbie by friends and family and live life in a way generally identified as a female gender stereotype - yes I do.

If I saw that t shirt I’d assume the person was still working things out. Anybody with half a brain and a will to be honest to themselves will reach the sheer biological truth ultimately.

"gender woo"?

If you mean trans people, you might find every gay bar and LGBT friendly area in Britain are welcoming and supportive of trans people. I'm afraid I don't think I can say the same for "people with gender critical views", these people are probably best staying away from the LGBT community IMHO.

Other women as in other women to you, not them. I don't call these males women in any sense.

But you do believe their identity should be validated by other women, no?

I never said they were women.

In the way that they are human beings working and living in society alongside other human beings?

Well yes, like all other males. What makes them "women"?

In the way that they are human beings working and living in society alongside other human beings?

Connected in the way that we are all connnected within communities living side by side - changing and developing the way we act and view the world.

There are some acting in bad faith but that doesn’t mean there’s not a way forward for the future for everyone else.

🎯

"I'm so cool and open and you're just all SO uptight."

No, you're being a control-freak, Jane. You're trying to give the impression of being liberated, but seems to me you're a boring spicy straight who believes in regressive sex stereotypes, that's all. You don't seem able to live and let live. You don't respect other people's boundaries. You can't deal with others who have different views from you or who understand the big picture way better than you do. You're being coercive. I don't believe you do find "this hysteria amusing". I think you're trying to prove you're better than we are. It's Cool Girl script. It screams insecurity.

I don’t think trans women are the same as biological women.

In what way are this group of males connected at all?

I don’t think trans women are the same as biological women.

I don’t believe you can change sex.

I believe it’s important to have clear, factual, scientific terms for human categories.

I think the binary biological system has created a toxic binary gender stereotyped view of humans which has caused both men and women but mostly women a lot of pain, disadvantage and suffering.

I think while we are growing and ‘transitioning’ out of these gender stereotypes which will take a long time still we are going to have to deal with a lot of growing pains.

I do have hope that there’s a way forward which protects and respects women’s needs and at the same time is open to creating third option spaces (or more) to deal with a society which is expanding beyond the binary gender options.

Jesus Christ, you actually went there.

Of course.

But how typical of genderists to rewrite things entirely to suit themselves.

"Hysteria".

Jesus Christ, you actually went there.

Those silly hysterical uterus owners. Why can't they just accept that these penis owners have a different opinion about whether uterus owners should be allowed to have any words for themselves or their own spaces or sports or lesbian dating apps?

Why can't they just live and let me and my penis into the women's communal showers live?

Fuck this nonsense. I really am off to bed now.

The OP and others are just angry because they hoped for a thread where people would come and tut about those awful awful trans women, and instead were told it was NBD

That really isn't the majority of posts on the thread, most of them are calling out the homophobia. Perhaps you're reading a different one?

Those of us who have presented our case

You haven't. As I said, you haven't made any rational case for why other people should share your gender identity belief.

What is a niche viewpoint?

That trans women are male?

I think it's only a niche viewpoint among trans activists, and people who mistakenly believe that a trans woman is a biological female who identifies as a man.