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Original poster

Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2

996 replies

ickky · 06/10/2023 15:32

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

CW - Chris Williams, Senior Lecturer History
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SE - Sarah Earle, Prof of Medical Sociology, Director HWSRA 2016-22
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
RocketPanda · 09/10/2023 13:11

You know when you ask a child did you break the window and you get an answer about last Tuesday in school the big boys were playing badminton and then my sandwich fell on the ground and there was an ant beside it who ran away from a bird etc etc . They just keep talking in a disingenuous way to avoid incriminating themselves.

AlisonDonut · 09/10/2023 13:11

Thank you - i'll go have a watch of that.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2023 13:10

Listening to the SM podcast, thanks for the link!

RethinkingLife · 09/10/2023 13:06

AlisonDonut · 09/10/2023 13:04

Does anyone know which Savage Minds podcast Jo did a bad thing on?

Overlapped with earlier link.

Podcast:

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 09/10/2023 13:05

literalviolence · 09/10/2023 13:03

Did the witness actually answer this?

Show quote history

Not that I could make out. They seemed to struggle with the meaning/concept of distinction versus discrimination.

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 09/10/2023 13:04

Does anyone know which Savage Minds podcast Jo did a bad thing on?

GCITC · 09/10/2023 13:04

literalviolence · 09/10/2023 13:03

Did the witness actually answer this?

Show quote history

Basically no. PB - I understand the argument being made.

CriticalCondition · 09/10/2023 13:04

literalviolence · 09/10/2023 13:03

Did the witness actually answer this?

Show quote history

No.

LarkLane · 09/10/2023 13:03

Well that's rather racist in thinking of Dr. Avi in my humble opinion. I'm horribly fascinated by how muddled this Associate Professor at the Open University appears to be.

GCITC · 09/10/2023 13:03

Anyone know what time we're back?

literalviolence · 09/10/2023 13:03

CriticalCondition · 09/10/2023 12:53

Dr B is saying she took exception to the distinction between the T and the LGB. BC - how is that discrimination against the T?

Did the witness actually answer this?

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 09/10/2023 13:03

Break for lunch, did they say how long for? Is it an hour? (I need to get some work done!)

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 09/10/2023 13:02

ickky · 09/10/2023 12:57

PB REALLY REALLY needs to actually read the Equality Act.

“Safe spaces”…? Yeah, not in there.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2023 13:02

This person seems to have contradicted themselves multiple times during this cross.

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 09/10/2023 13:01

Judge wants to listen to the savage minds podcast herself!

CriticalCondition · 09/10/2023 13:00

Waffle from DrB. BC- well, the tribunal can assess that answer...

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 09/10/2023 12:59

BC did a long pause and came up with the analogy of a black lesbian - a support group for black people would not focus on her needs as a lesbian. Witness said they shouldn't discriminate and is clearly of the position that not focussed on supporting that need = discriminatory (from and LBT vs TQ perspective)

Sisterpita · 09/10/2023 12:58

BC is so clever, step by step, take them down the path to completely undermine their argument.

CriticalCondition · 09/10/2023 12:58

BC- do you accept the LG interests can be in conflict with those of T people?
Dr B- yes.

Original poster
ickky · 09/10/2023 12:57

PB REALLY REALLY needs to actually read the Equality Act.

OP posts:
Sisterpita · 09/10/2023 12:57

They are not familiar with the self ID conflict with Lesbian and Gay rights. FFS

CriticalCondition · 09/10/2023 12:55

BC - they should all, including the T, have the right not to be discriminated against.
Dr B- but trans people can be gay.

LarkLane · 09/10/2023 12:55

Sorry cross posted with RethinkingLife.
Jo only had one witness, so whilst the OU would have a preferred order for theirs, the running order is formally agreed between the parties prior to the start of the Tribunal.