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Original poster

Need to vent! It’s either a baby boy or a baby girl!

83 replies

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 14:54

I’m doing some online training at the moment related to labour and birth and whenever it makes reference to the newborn they will say “A baby that is assigned male at birth or a baby that is assigned female at birth.”

For example, “an infant that is born and is assigned male at birth may have more vernex than a baby who is born and assigned female at birth.”

And this is in reference to babies that are less than 5 minutes old!

I’ve heard it and seen it written down about 20 times now and it’s driving me mad!

During the section on labour I kept having to hear phrases like:

When the infant is positioned correctly in the person’s womb….

When the infant is below the parent’s pelvic bone….

The parent’s contractions will intensify as their body prepares to deliver the infant…

When the infant exits the parent’s body….

When the infant is placed on the parent’s chest……

If the parent decides they want their infant to feed at the chest….

The words are MOTHER, WOMAN, SHE, HER and BREAST!

When it all stop?!

Weve been given a list of terms/acronyms that we have to use when writing in the infants notes etc and it actually says we need to refer to the infants as BAMAB or BAFAM for “baby assigned male at birth” or “baby assigned female at birth”.

One pupil asked what they should do if any of the parents objected to their infant being labeled/described with those acronyms and the lecturer actually said we need to continue using the terms and we must educate (her words) the parents as to why it’s important we/they use inclusive terms when talking about their infant.

I honestly couldn’t believe it.

So now we are supposed to tell parents that we won’t refer to their babies as being either male or female and that they shouldn’t be doing that either to ensure they aren’t being discriminatory?!

When will this madness stop?!

OP posts:
Doormatnomore · 18/09/2023 16:27

I’m not sure what the goal is but surely that flies in the face of clear English rules. If you aren’t let’s say “up to date with current thinking” or English as a second language or have a learning difficulty then surely assigned could be interpreted as meaning there’s something to decide and maybe your infant isn’t well. Then what do you say to the parent “oh no they are a fit and healthy small human but you can say it’s a boy or a girl until it can talk and fully understand gender roles”. I don’t think that’ll clear anything up. Especially if yoi keep asking for the parent and there’s 2 people wondering who you want.

JellySaurus · 18/09/2023 16:25

donquixotedelamancha · 18/09/2023 16:20

Complain that the training encouraged you to speak to and about patients in a dehumanising and patronising way and that when this was challenged the trainer told you to speak to patients disrespectfully.

I would also complain that you are being told the NHS should not record children's sex.

And it is hardly inclusive to police parents in the use of the terms they choose to refer to themselves and to their infants.

Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 16:24

Rightsraptor · 18/09/2023 16:21

But one of the very important things I did as a midwife was to observe & document the baby's sex. Is this insane training telling you not to do that, or that it's not to be done by anyone else? What if the baby has a sex-specific medical condition - do you have to wait till it's old enough to decide what 'gender' it is and then sort the problems out?

Infuckingsane.

Apparently it’s not appropriate to call an infant a “baby boy” or a “baby girl” as they are stereotypical terms based on that infant’s external genitalia.

I’m not sure how that’s any different to them labelling a baby as male or female based on their external genitalia?!

OP posts:
MrsMarzetti · 18/09/2023 16:23

AppleDumplingWithCustard · 18/09/2023 16:17

How long until a midwife becomes a midperson?

I read an article today in which the midwife was referred to as a delivery nurse !

ChewtonRoad · 18/09/2023 16:22

The lecturer is now talking about how professionals cannot assign a sex or gender to an infant in any written documentation or forms

It's bad enough that you're being told to use the false AFAB/AMAB ridiculousness, but why would those working in obstetrics have any interest in "assigning" gender stereotypes.

This is insanity and has no place in training for any health care professionals. Is there any way you can rebel, even by using Observed F/MAB or sneaking in the words woman, women, and mother as needed? Goddess knows to what depths they'll plunge with five months more of this utter bullshit.

Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 16:21

donquixotedelamancha · 18/09/2023 16:20

Complain that the training encouraged you to speak to and about patients in a dehumanising and patronising way and that when this was challenged the trainer told you to speak to patients disrespectfully.

I would also complain that you are being told the NHS should not record children's sex.

The training isn’t provided by the NHS or in an NHS establishment. It has nothing to do with the NHS at all.

OP posts:
Rightsraptor · 18/09/2023 16:21

But one of the very important things I did as a midwife was to observe & document the baby's sex. Is this insane training telling you not to do that, or that it's not to be done by anyone else? What if the baby has a sex-specific medical condition - do you have to wait till it's old enough to decide what 'gender' it is and then sort the problems out?

Infuckingsane.

donquixotedelamancha · 18/09/2023 16:20

Complain that the training encouraged you to speak to and about patients in a dehumanising and patronising way and that when this was challenged the trainer told you to speak to patients disrespectfully.

I would also complain that you are being told the NHS should not record children's sex.

UndercoverCop · 18/09/2023 16:20

This doesn't sound like medical training.

AppleDumplingWithCustard · 18/09/2023 16:17

How long until a midwife becomes a midperson?

IdleAnimations · 18/09/2023 16:16

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 16:13

The lecturer is now talking about how professionals cannot assign a sex or gender to an infant in any written documentation or forms because…. And I quote…

“Gender is very fluid and so it will be up to the individual infant as to what they wish to be when they are old enough and not something for us to temporarily decide on their behalf.”

FML.

Can you complain? This is enforced ideology and to be honest - it’s dangerous.

girls and boys aren’t just different due to genitalia.

Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 16:13

The lecturer is now talking about how professionals cannot assign a sex or gender to an infant in any written documentation or forms because…. And I quote…

“Gender is very fluid and so it will be up to the individual infant as to what they wish to be when they are old enough and not something for us to temporarily decide on their behalf.”

FML.

OP posts:
Treaclewell · 18/09/2023 16:09

When I trained as a teacher, the first lecture covered the meaning of the word 'educate', being derived fron Latin, 'to lead out'. We were not in the business of pouring in facts, etc. These people have completely ignored this, when they spoke of having to educate. They mean brainwash.

CorruptedCauldron · 18/09/2023 16:09

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 15:41

We have to do coursework and sit exams in relation to this training (the course is 6 months long) so I imagine if we use the wrong terms in either of those then we may be deducted points 🤷‍♀️

I’m only one month in and if I’ve got another 5 months ahead of me of BAMAB and BAFAB then I’m going to explode 😬

Show quote history

I don’t blame you, I’d explode too! I wonder how much money is being wasted on this pointless training.

Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 16:07

JemOfAWoman · 18/09/2023 16:02

You need to send a copy of this nonsense to 'Sex Matters' and get them to challenge it as part of their drive to get it out of the NHS! 🤬🤬🤬🤬

It isn’t NHS training thankfully!!

Give it a few years though….. 😬

OP posts:
JemOfAWoman · 18/09/2023 16:02

You need to send a copy of this nonsense to 'Sex Matters' and get them to challenge it as part of their drive to get it out of the NHS! 🤬🤬🤬🤬

RoseslnTheHospital · 18/09/2023 15:47

The idiocy of all this is that the people writing this drivel rely on the fact that you, as the target audience, already know without a doubt that if a person is pregnant they are a woman. And that by "parent" they mean the labouring woman, not the male (or female) parent present for support. And that babies are not assigned a sex at birth, and in many cases the sex is known many weeks before birth.

Because if you didn't, or it wasn't bloody obvious, this would be such confusing bollocks.

Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 15:45

Datun · 18/09/2023 15:13

It's utterly ridiculous.

You could ask whether or not it was okay with everyone if you just assigned sex alternately, without any other criteria.

A boy, followed by a girl, followed by a boy...etc.

And if you can't, why can't you?

What is the criteria they are using in order to assign boy or a girl?

Get them to tell you.

She said the baby’s external genitalia is the criteria that will be used to assign the infant as male or female.

So why they can’t just use those terms I have no idea??

I do understand it from a transgenderism angle and why a trans-woman may want to refer to themselves as AMAB, but these are brand new babies who are simply either male or female?!

OP posts:
BuffaloCauliflower · 18/09/2023 15:45

This would infuriate me, it’s also factually incorrect. Nobody ‘assigned’ a sex to my babies on their birth, we just looked with our eyes and named what we saw. This is proper 1984 stuff.

Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 15:42

MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 18/09/2023 15:29

The parent’s contractions will intensify as their body prepares to deliver the infant… What a load of twaddle. If I have another baby I'm going to identify as the parent who doesn't have contractions. The other parent can have them this time.

😂😂😂

OP posts:
Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 15:41

CorruptedCauldron · 18/09/2023 15:06

Can’t you just ignore it? Will you be disciplined for writing boy / girl / mother etc in the notes?

This is madness. Medical notes need to be really clear and precise. Waffly virtue-signalling flannel provides no benefit whatsoever - if anything, it’s a hindrance.

I despair.

We have to do coursework and sit exams in relation to this training (the course is 6 months long) so I imagine if we use the wrong terms in either of those then we may be deducted points 🤷‍♀️

I’m only one month in and if I’ve got another 5 months ahead of me of BAMAB and BAFAB then I’m going to explode 😬

OP posts:
Transparent2 · 18/09/2023 15:41

I don't recall having any contractions, but then again, I wasn't doing the work of labour, I was just standing around trying to be a bit supportive and not to get in the way. But I was definitely one of the parents present. And I would only have attempted to deliver the baby if there had been no midwife around.

MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 18/09/2023 15:29

The parent’s contractions will intensify as their body prepares to deliver the infant… What a load of twaddle. If I have another baby I'm going to identify as the parent who doesn't have contractions. The other parent can have them this time.

crumblylancs · 18/09/2023 15:16

If my midwives or doctors starts coming out with this shit and refuses to stop along with attempting to "educate me" I'll be saying a bit fat no thank you to their care.

PurBal · 18/09/2023 15:15

GC beliefs are protected under the equality act. So a mother saying “please refer to me as mother” has a right to that surely? Are you supposed to “educate” those who pray through labour by telling them that Jesus wasn’t the Messiah?

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