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Original poster

Need to vent! It’s either a baby boy or a baby girl!

83 replies

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 14:54

I’m doing some online training at the moment related to labour and birth and whenever it makes reference to the newborn they will say “A baby that is assigned male at birth or a baby that is assigned female at birth.”

For example, “an infant that is born and is assigned male at birth may have more vernex than a baby who is born and assigned female at birth.”

And this is in reference to babies that are less than 5 minutes old!

I’ve heard it and seen it written down about 20 times now and it’s driving me mad!

During the section on labour I kept having to hear phrases like:

When the infant is positioned correctly in the person’s womb….

When the infant is below the parent’s pelvic bone….

The parent’s contractions will intensify as their body prepares to deliver the infant…

When the infant exits the parent’s body….

When the infant is placed on the parent’s chest……

If the parent decides they want their infant to feed at the chest….

The words are MOTHER, WOMAN, SHE, HER and BREAST!

When it all stop?!

Weve been given a list of terms/acronyms that we have to use when writing in the infants notes etc and it actually says we need to refer to the infants as BAMAB or BAFAM for “baby assigned male at birth” or “baby assigned female at birth”.

One pupil asked what they should do if any of the parents objected to their infant being labeled/described with those acronyms and the lecturer actually said we need to continue using the terms and we must educate (her words) the parents as to why it’s important we/they use inclusive terms when talking about their infant.

I honestly couldn’t believe it.

So now we are supposed to tell parents that we won’t refer to their babies as being either male or female and that they shouldn’t be doing that either to ensure they aren’t being discriminatory?!

When will this madness stop?!

OP posts:
CrunchyCarrot · 19/09/2023 07:52

“Gender is very fluid and so it will be up to the individual infant as to what they wish to be when they are old enough and not something for us to temporarily decide on their behalf.”

So how long do the poor parents wait to discover whether their child is male or female? It would be years! This is just so stupid and illogical and downright wrong. So harmful to the child. Honestly everyone has to stand up and say they are done with all this nonsense.

Myalternate · 18/09/2023 23:52

“She’s got a globally recognised qualification….”

What qualification would that be?

Inamuddle36 · 18/09/2023 23:35

@HeadAgainstWall0923 are you able to share the name of the training course? Is it a British organisation?

Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 23:23

FannyCann · 18/09/2023 23:12

Also not so very long ago they definitely had different growth charts for girls and boys.
Do they still have those or have they decided all babies grow at the same rate?

They still have separate charts but one is titled “baby assigned male at birth” and the other is “baby assigned female at birth”.

So they recognise that infants of different sexes grow at different rates, but they aren’t allowed to have male/female charts as then we are deciding for the infant what sex they are when actually it’s the infants decision to make.

OP posts:
FannyCann · 18/09/2023 23:12

Also not so very long ago they definitely had different growth charts for girls and boys.
Do they still have those or have they decided all babies grow at the same rate?

Need to vent! It’s either a baby boy or a baby girl!
DisappearingGirl · 18/09/2023 23:12

"Congratulations, it's a BAMAB!"

FannyCann · 18/09/2023 23:09

Here you are OP. This is the paper you need to have to hand with ready quotes and references to push back.

"We suggest consideration of the following questions: How can I be clear? How can I include the people who should be included and exclude the people who should be excluded? How can I ensure that people understand what I mean and can readily recognize themselves? How can I avoid dehumanizing language? Does it make sense to apply a gendered understanding of words or a sexed understanding? Am I engaging in cultural imperialism or improper use of privilege by requiring others to use language in a particular way?"

You could try innocently saying "I'm worried I/we am/are engaging in cultural imperialism and improper use of privilege through use of these terms which many people don't understand" or something along those lines and see what they say to that. Wink

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2022.818856

BigBoysDontCry · 18/09/2023 22:58

Where I lived (major city in the UK) when I had my DC they did not routinely scan after the dating scan at all. However there was a sign in the waiting room saying that they would not disclose the sex of babies so not to ask. I guess this was for people having later scans when required. This was in 2000/2001.

IdleAnimations · 18/09/2023 22:20

JeannieDark · 18/09/2023 21:59

@IdleAnimations

"China actually banned any mention of sex in scans, you only find out at birth. This was due to the 1 child rule and it being socially ‘better’ to have a boy.

You hear that woman erasers? Female foetuses were killed purely based on sex, not feelings or liking the colour pink."

There are parts of the U.K. where you cannot find out the sex of your baby at the 20 week NHS scan for the same reason.

I had no idea, how awful 😞

JeannieDark · 18/09/2023 21:59

@IdleAnimations

"China actually banned any mention of sex in scans, you only find out at birth. This was due to the 1 child rule and it being socially ‘better’ to have a boy.

You hear that woman erasers? Female foetuses were killed purely based on sex, not feelings or liking the colour pink."

There are parts of the U.K. where you cannot find out the sex of your baby at the 20 week NHS scan for the same reason.

Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 20:37

Datun · 18/09/2023 20:12

Sex Or gender??

but apparently people are assigning something based on genitalia. What is it? Sex or gender?

it's utterly contradictory.

Show quote history

I agree - it’s absolute nonsense!!

If they are labelling a male baby as being one that is “assigned male at birth” when he’s literally just come out the vagina, then considering that’s the moment of his birth, then he’s a male?!

Total batshit!

OP posts:
Datun · 18/09/2023 20:12

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 16:13

The lecturer is now talking about how professionals cannot assign a sex or gender to an infant in any written documentation or forms because…. And I quote…

“Gender is very fluid and so it will be up to the individual infant as to what they wish to be when they are old enough and not something for us to temporarily decide on their behalf.”

FML.

Sex Or gender??

but apparently people are assigning something based on genitalia. What is it? Sex or gender?

it's utterly contradictory.

MariaVT65 · 18/09/2023 19:36

This is some god damn bullshit right here.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 18/09/2023 19:33

She’s got a globally recognised qualification and I paid for myself to do the training

I'd be asking for a refund.

Boiledbeetle · 18/09/2023 19:33

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 16:55

She’s got a globally recognised qualification and I paid for myself to do the training. I inflicted this upon myself 😂

Show quote history

I'd be wanting my money back on the fact that she mis-sold and misrepresented what the course was about!

Datun · 18/09/2023 19:11

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 15:45

She said the baby’s external genitalia is the criteria that will be used to assign the infant as male or female.

So why they can’t just use those terms I have no idea??

I do understand it from a transgenderism angle and why a trans-woman may want to refer to themselves as AMAB, but these are brand new babies who are simply either male or female?!

Show quote history

You can I ask why? Why does external genitalia dictate sex? Surely, they should be able to decide as they get older.

Or is sex not the same as gender? In which case you're talking about sex which doesn't change.

it's a logically incoherent position to decide that one can assign a sex based on genitalia as opposed to the person being that based on genitalia.

Delphinium20 · 18/09/2023 18:50

If you paid for the course, surely she wants you to be satisfied with your investment. If you complain, ask for a refund and tell her you won't be recommending her course due to the clinical absurdity and subpar curriculum, surely she will feel a financial pinch and try to accommodate her consumers.

IdleAnimations · 18/09/2023 17:04

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 16:58

I can’t wait for the day where a baby’s sex isn’t allowed to be announced during scans or after birth based on genitalia alone and instead they will be required to have blood tests to check whether the baby has XX or XY chromosomes….

I can imagine a mother holding her baby with a penis, waiting anxiously in her hospital bed for the Lab to ring with the infant’s blood results so she can find out if she’s had a male or female baby…..

Show quote history

China actually banned any mention of sex in scans, you only find out at birth. This was due to the 1 child rule and it being socially ‘better’ to have a boy.

You hear that woman erasers? Female foetuses were killed purely based on sex, not feelings or liking the colour pink.

Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 16:58

BigBoysDontCry · 18/09/2023 16:55

Exactly! And I'm glad if that is still the case in terms of the announcement, but I assume nowadays that a lot of people know before the baby is born anyway.

I still have some people at work who have their pronouns on their email signature. Utter nonsense.

I can’t wait for the day where a baby’s sex isn’t allowed to be announced during scans or after birth based on genitalia alone and instead they will be required to have blood tests to check whether the baby has XX or XY chromosomes….

I can imagine a mother holding her baby with a penis, waiting anxiously in her hospital bed for the Lab to ring with the infant’s blood results so she can find out if she’s had a male or female baby…..

OP posts:
IdleAnimations · 18/09/2023 16:56

BigBoysDontCry · 18/09/2023 16:32

Anyone had a baby recently? What do they tell you when it is born now? I remember them announcing "it's a boy" when my sons were born 20 odd years ago. Do they still do that or do they have to say "I've assigned your baby male"?

I went for a growth scan a week or so ago. I was asked if I wanted to know sex, they said sex without even looking uncomfortable. Not assigned - the sex. I haven’t been asked pronouns or given any of this woke nonsense by my midwife.

I went for a private scan at 16 weeks so we could find out the sex earlier. The private clinic was full, people had cannons or balloons in pink or blue.

I think the NHS in my area aren’t particularly anti woman, if I’m called a birther at any point I will kick off.

These training providers and anti woman campaigners don’t realise they’re in the minority. The issue is, they’ve infiltrated the top institutions and make A LOT of money from the erasure of women and confusing young children.

Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 16:55

comfyoldcardi · 18/09/2023 16:46

Who on earth is this trainer and who is paying them?

She’s got a globally recognised qualification and I paid for myself to do the training. I inflicted this upon myself 😂

OP posts:
BigBoysDontCry · 18/09/2023 16:55

Exactly! And I'm glad if that is still the case in terms of the announcement, but I assume nowadays that a lot of people know before the baby is born anyway.

I still have some people at work who have their pronouns on their email signature. Utter nonsense.

comfyoldcardi · 18/09/2023 16:46

Who on earth is this trainer and who is paying them?

Original poster
HeadAgainstWall0923 · 18/09/2023 16:43

BigBoysDontCry · 18/09/2023 16:32

Anyone had a baby recently? What do they tell you when it is born now? I remember them announcing "it's a boy" when my sons were born 20 odd years ago. Do they still do that or do they have to say "I've assigned your baby male"?

I’m about 99% sure that they still rightfully say it’s either a boy or a girl and I doubt very much any mothers or fathers would be remotely offended by this!

Whilst all this ‘inclusive’ language is being forced down our throats I wonder if those who want to ‘educate’ us on how to use it correctly have actually stopped to question whether it’s even needed or wanted in the first place!

OP posts:
BigBoysDontCry · 18/09/2023 16:32

Anyone had a baby recently? What do they tell you when it is born now? I remember them announcing "it's a boy" when my sons were born 20 odd years ago. Do they still do that or do they have to say "I've assigned your baby male"?