The dreaded issue arose with my son…

That's a bit cheeky!

We've discussed why people used to think the Earth was flat and how that seemed a reasonable thing to believe at the time.

I would tell them the holocaust happened, I suppose I might explore why people would want to say it didn't happen, why people would have voted for Nazis and supported them in the first place.

I just don't believe in pretending that complexity and differences of opinion don't exist.

It is not " banging tables" to let the child know that nobody can really change sex; or that sex is important in certain circumstances.

And it is only responsible not to expect a child to have to conform to other people's private beliefs about themselves, and in contradiction to their own knowledge and instinct.

Gender identity is a private belief system that not everyone shares. Not everyone has a gender identity. Including children. You really think that suggesting to them that there is such a thing is a neutral position?

That is teaching children that cognitive dissonance is a healthy and normal state that we should do nothing to resolve.

realise that they aren’t happy being a boy/girl, and they choose to change

Except they can’t really change, can they? They can choose to present differently, but they can’t change their sex.

But they aren't legally recognised as "that gender" because gender isn't real. Someone with a gender recognition certificate is legally recognised as the opposite sex, because that is the only thing that actually exists in reality.

This has huge consequences for the rest of society, in particular for women, which have just been ignored.

And what makes this different to a woman who doesn't wear 'dresses', has shorter hair and has a name that sounds 'masculine'. Pronouns?

Can you be very clear what difference pronouns makes in this case?

Remember, you are explaining this to a child who will go forth with this information and use it as a foundation to many of their life's decisions.

In the highly unlikely event that the catholic church ever embraces trans rights and allows religious brethren to transition and then switch between different religious communities, then yes I would ask my child to call them the appropriate title.

You are witnessing exactly that

Society switching from sex division to gender

To the detriment of women and children

Sexed pronouns are only in the third person in English, so only used to talk about a person (usually when they are absent), not to them. Expecting others to use specific language when you are not there is unreasonable.

Some names are unisex and others are used by different sexes depending on where the person is from.

If I dress in male clothing that doesn't mean I'm 'living as a man', it means I'm a woman wearing male clothing. If I have a 'male' haircut (what is a male haircut?) that makes me a woman with a 'male haircut', not a woman living as a man.

You seem to think that living as the opposite sex is all about stereotypes ( and policing other people's speech). This seems quite regressive.

If that was all it was then no one would care. Trans people could crack on with whatever pronouns and hairstyles they like.

It's the safeguarding aspects that we are worried about.

This is the dramatic tone I mean - no I don't want my female child to share a prison cell with a priest. Erm...

Personally I also believe you can't erase biological sex, I would oppose self-ID, I'm skeptical about the recent trend for more children to identify as trans, I'd be worried if my child did so and resistant to hormonal treatment etc.

The legal changes people are campaigning for would represent a fundamental unpinning of what constitutes a man or a woman, disconnecting it from biology. I disagree with that.

However despite all of that I would teach my child that people are out there who believe these things, because we live in the real world not a world that springs from my opinions. And the more you bang the table about these things, the more likely it is that your child will store that away as a fruitful area for teenage rebellion.

Absolutely

This is dystopian level indoctrination

Be clear and use biological facts

What? What? WHAT?

I honestly don't think I can cope with this stuff any more.

It's as if I'm experiencing the entire reorganisation of society around the beliefs of particularly stupid young earth creationists.

But would you ever suggest referring to the nun as 'father' and the priest as 'sister'? Who would care - you would still be showing respect by using the catholic lingo?

To go off on a slight tangent here, indoctrinating children is on page 1 of the dystopian society playbook.

We see it in both 1984 (with children being encouraged to spy on and denounce their parents) and in The Handmaid's Tale. The first generation of handmaids who still remember the time before risk losing a hand if they are caught reading or writing; the second generation of handmaids are simply never taught to read and write.

It is utterly terrifying that this ideology is being allowed to spread unchecked in schools and that teachers are promoting it, and it is utterly terrifying that the police are also promoting it by treating things like photographing a sticker as a potential crime whilst doing nothing about women being harassed, threatened and assaulted by trans activists. We cannot fire the majority of teachers and the majority of the police to stop the rot. And those coming out of school and university today and looking for entry level positions in teaching and the police are even more likely to support and believe in this stuff.

So this is a really dangerous time, and parents need to be very clear to their children that whilst it is not OK to bully someone over their gender identity, the concept of girls becoming boys and vice versa, and gender in general, is antiscientific nonsense.

You don't need to thump tables and declarre anything. But is IS lies, whether you say so or not.
It does get you somewhere, it gets you facts. Your child will not see you as an authority because you take a truth and a lie and tell them they are both opinions. They'll think you an idiot.
Do you tell them that some people think the earth is flat and some don't and both opinions are ok? Do you tell them that some people believe the Holocaust happened and some don't, and we should respect both sides and not thump tables on one side or another?

Of course you don't. So why are you doing it with something equally as truth vs lie?

Parent properly.

But implicit in that is the belief in the concept of 'gender identity' in the first place.

Great he's raised this with you at 9. It means you can fully prime him before secondary school. Good luck.

Do you realise the current law on gender reassignment was written to allow gay men who had undergone surgery and 'full' transition to legally marry their partner - before the advent of same sex marriage.

No one in this thread has said that you can change biological sex. What you can do (and very few people choose to do) is live with a different gender identity to the one you were born with, and be legally recognised as that gender.

You are not helping them by omitting biological facts

What do you understand as the difference between gender and sex? Because you seem to be using them quite interchangeably in your posts.

I wouldn't! I'd be down at the school demanding to know what exactly was being taught.

@fearfuloffluff and would you be happy letting that priest watch you get changed in the gym changing room? Or sharing a prison cell with them.

I won't accept that any male has a right to take away my decision that no male will see me or my daughter naked without our explicit consent. Even if that male wears a pretty dress and tells me their name is Susan.

There are conflicts in the rights of women and the rights of trans identified people. The reason that there are conflicts is because people cannot change sex. It is an impossibility, it cannot happen. If you are born female, you die female, if you are born male, you die male. What you wear, how you present, what you call yourself is all window dressing.

Living as a man/woman: pronouns used, name chosen, how the person choose to present themselves physically (e.g clothes, hair, style etc.)

I’ve explained a couple of times how gender and sex and can be discussed with a child in the context of transgender people.