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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The dreaded issue arose with my son…

264 replies

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 12/09/2023 21:51

Today my 9 year old son told me that boys can change to girls, and girls can change to boys, and they can choose whether to be a boy or a girl whenever they want.

When I asked him where he’d heard that he said he’d been told it at school.

I feel so disheartened.

OP posts:
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8
RebelliousCow · 13/09/2023 07:36

The problem is that now your son is being told one thing by some adults ( teachers), and an entirely opposite thing by others ( yourself). We are really brewing up sheer confusion and a lack of trust in adult responsibility.

My first move would be to speak with the headteacher and raise your concerns. Also, speak with other parents you feel you can trust.

MargotBamborough · 13/09/2023 07:25

loislovesstewie · 13/09/2023 07:20

We are heading to having a whole generation who believe complete twaddle. If we aren't already at that point. How dare schools teach such nonsense, to put such ideas into impressionable minds , the worst thing is that no one who spouts such nonsense has to deal with the consequences. I have formed the opinion that someone, some organisation needs to be sued in order for things to change.
In the meantime OP just stick to biology with your child, and tell them that putting on different clothes and modifying the body does not change sex.

I totally agree.

My kids aren't yet at this stage but I find it really concerning that parents who want to try and keep their children safe are going to have to tell their children that their teachers are either wrong or lying to them about this one particular subject, but also that they must respect the teacher and listen to them. I think a certain level of scepticism and questioning at school is good, but fundamentally children need to be able to trust their teachers when they say that 2 + 2 = 4. This seems like it's breaking the social contract between teachers and children somehow.

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 13/09/2023 07:21

I meant to say he had* his puberty talk at school at the end of the last academic term.

OP posts:
loislovesstewie · 13/09/2023 07:20

We are heading to having a whole generation who believe complete twaddle. If we aren't already at that point. How dare schools teach such nonsense, to put such ideas into impressionable minds , the worst thing is that no one who spouts such nonsense has to deal with the consequences. I have formed the opinion that someone, some organisation needs to be sued in order for things to change.
In the meantime OP just stick to biology with your child, and tell them that putting on different clothes and modifying the body does not change sex.

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 13/09/2023 07:06

Morning everyone,

Rhank you for all of your advice and some of your suggestions regarding the responses/explanations I could give him in further discussions are incredibly helpful.

I struggled to drop off last night as it was going around in my head.

In going to bring it up again this morning only to find out if this was something that was told to him by his teacher (they didn’t hear puberty lessons at the end of last year) or whether it’s something he’s heard children talk about.

Even if it’s just a discussion he’s heard other children having, do you think I should still raise it with his teacher?

OP posts:
JoyceBarry · 13/09/2023 07:04

I am not sure why this is all a big deal as there are many young people certainly in secondary school who use non traditional pronouns and identify in a way most comfortable to them

This child is nine. Nine. What he is being told at school is in no way comparable to what's happening with your sixth former, they are in a different stage of life.

Older teens have always spouted a load of nonsense. It's been ever so.

MargotBamborough · 13/09/2023 07:02

zeibesaffron · 12/09/2023 22:44

Why is this a dreaded conversation?

Just be honest - my DH has 2 friends and an acquaintance who are transgender (my DD is 17). They are all in the same year at school and the friend who is 18 has been referred to the gender clinic. The 2 x 17 year olds have not! I am not sure why this is all a big deal as there are many young people certainly in secondary school who use non traditional pronouns and identify in a way most comfortable to them - it means you as a parent needs to be open and honest in a way a 9 year old will understand.

It's a dreaded conversation because firmly counteracting all the bollocks children are being taught whilst maintaining a close and trusting relationship with them is a difficult tightrope to walk these days.

I know the age of legal majority needs to be set somewhere but your daughter's friend is someone who was considered too young to vote in a general election, get a tattoo or buy cigarettes a few months ago, but suddenly they're able to consent to hormone treatment and possibly surgery which will permanently damage their previously healthy body and probably render them infertile because they believe the ideologues telling them you can choose whether to be a man or a woman.

ResisterRex · 13/09/2023 06:56

Are you in England OP? Report the school to Ofsted and copy your MP if so. The lesson goes against what they should do:

www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum

"You should not reinforce harmful stereotypes, for instance by suggesting that children might be a different gender based on their personality and interests or the clothes they prefer to wear. Resources used in teaching about this topic must always be age-appropriate and evidence based. Materials which suggest that non-conformity to gender stereotypes should be seen as synonymous with having a different gender identity should not be used and you should not work with external agencies or organisations that produce such material. While teachers should not suggest to a child that their non-compliance with gender stereotypes means that either their personality or their body is wrong and in need of changing, teachers should always seek to treat individual students with sympathy and support."

Soontobe60 · 13/09/2023 06:48

zeibesaffron · 12/09/2023 22:44

Why is this a dreaded conversation?

Just be honest - my DH has 2 friends and an acquaintance who are transgender (my DD is 17). They are all in the same year at school and the friend who is 18 has been referred to the gender clinic. The 2 x 17 year olds have not! I am not sure why this is all a big deal as there are many young people certainly in secondary school who use non traditional pronouns and identify in a way most comfortable to them - it means you as a parent needs to be open and honest in a way a 9 year old will understand.

That’s all fine and dandy, but none of the children you’ve mentioned have or will ever change sex.

GreenMonty · 13/09/2023 06:45

Beethoven I'm in Scotland too and have just refused permission for ds 14 to fill in the SHINE Wellbeing survey at school as q5 asks about his 'gender identity' with no question about biological sex. I emailed the school to say I wasn't happy with the way the question was framed asking for feedback to go to the council. I also noted that the questionnaire said answers were anonymous but at the end the pupils were invited to give their names if they wanted help which I thought might be confusing.

ArabeIIaScott · 13/09/2023 06:40

Was this something your son was taught OP? Are you in Scotland?

As well as teaching my children basic, factual biology and having the 'some people believe this' chat, I've previously contacted the sex ed provider to correct specific misinformation. Which they have done.

BeethovenNinth · 13/09/2023 05:56

I told my kids that people can dress and say who they want to be. I also told them it is impossible to change sex however, because that it what I believe.

I told them some people want to try to change their sex and people are too scared to tell them they can’t do it so the message is wrong.I said the message will change in about ten years but until then we have to pretend. I said that as we are respectful people we can smile and nod, but inside we can agree it’s utterly batshit

i have kids in Scotland so the messages here start young and there are posters all over school and other public places. I have taught my kids to see these and understand why they are there

TheCheerfulNihilist · 13/09/2023 04:55

I am so glad I don't have young children anymore.

My 19 year old DS has gone to uni and swallowed the Woke Trans KoolAid and attempted once or twice to mansplain things to me in his great knowledge. He doesn't do that anymore after I made it clear that his mum was a TERF and that he was entitled to his opinion but there was no way it was going to be let slide around here.

Happily, my younger son is 14 and thinks his brother is an idiot. He is our little long hair wearing gender non conforming emo rockstar though, and any suggestion that he is a girl because of it is met with a dramatic flick of the hair.

I am 'open and honest' with my kids, they know how reality works. The 19 year old will come to his senses, Uni and new and exciting, he will grow out of it. He had to rebel somehow.

Just keep talking sense to him OP. It is all we can do.

Codlingmoths · 13/09/2023 02:50

*but thats NOT how I know you’re a boy! Duh!!

Codlingmoths · 13/09/2023 02:49

darling, I have cleaned your bottom a million times but that’s how I know you’re a boy. I know because when you were a cm long growing in my tummy they tested the blood from my arm, to look at the little fragments of your blood that were in it, and the bits they found in those little fragments, too small to see, were boy bits.it’s in every cell of your body, so you can’t change it by chopping anything off. But you can wear whatever you want and do any girly or boy things you want, it doesn’t matter that you’re a boy; it doesn’t stop you from anything.

PatatiPatatras · 13/09/2023 02:42

There's a 9 year old who has been taught castration is a simple option in a government funded school. 😫

That's pure batshit crazy stuff.

HirplesWithHaggis · 13/09/2023 01:05

Circumferences · 12/09/2023 22:15

...but he then said that if he asked a doctor to take out his testicles then that would mean he’d been changed into a girl.

And hopefully you told him that was completely incorrect.
He'd actually be changed into a "transgender person" not an actual girl.

He'd actually be changed into a castrated male, a eunuch, not a "transgender person".

PorcelinaV · 13/09/2023 00:49

it means you as a parent needs to be open and honest in a way a 9 year old will understand.

Well that seems like reasonable advice.

What would you suggest in particular?

I think the OP is doing the right thing to try to explain that you can't change sex.

I think you could also try to explain at that age, that while such medical procedures do exist, not only will they not change your sex, but that they will destroy your fertility and cause major damage to sexual function. So these are harmful operations to be avoided.

I would want to try to convey that transgenderism is not something simple and easy, but is rather a path you only want to go down if you really have to.

321user123 · 13/09/2023 00:33

…or… just a boy without testicles.
he’s still a boy because testicles or lack thereof don’t make you make or female 🫣

dimsumfatsum · 12/09/2023 23:56

SpiderMaam · 12/09/2023 22:47

When my kids came home wittering about the Gender Unicorn I gave myself an impromptu short haircut with the kitchen scissors and asked them if they were going to call me ‘dad’ from now on?

It was VERY theatrical and extremely liberating (the one other time I shocked them all into a similar open-mouthed silence was the day I threw a plastic hippo out of ’my bedroom window to stop them squabbling over it).

Bonus: whenever anyone mentions my dramatic change of ‘do (from bra strap length to cheekbone bob) I get to tell this story and can out myself as one of the tervish in a comedic fashion.

If it were my son I would probably just point at our giant male dog who had his testicles removed yonks ago but is still absolutely and unmistakably a boy dog 😄

I love this and will be doing the same when the time comes!

justgotosleepffs · 12/09/2023 22:55

HeadAgainstWall0923 · 12/09/2023 22:04

I told him that people cannot change their biological sex and that females will always be females and males will always be males.

I said that some men might want to wear a dress and say they feel like they’re a woman, but that doesn’t mean they are suddenly a female. I said the individuals are still male and will always be male.

I asked my son if he wore a dress does that make him a girl? He said no and said, “Because I’d still have my boy bits.”

I said that yes, that’s correct but he then said that if he asked a doctor to take out his testicles then that would mean he’d been changed into a girl.

I was not prepared for this at all as he just sprung it on me.

I am going to raise it again with him but I definitely need to have more logical answers prepared for him rather than just provide shocked ramblings like I did tonight.

Edited

Ask him if you surgically removed the wings from a bird, would that mean it's not a bird any more? Wouldn't it just be a bird with no wings?

saraclara · 12/09/2023 22:53

I've generally tackled it the same way I tackle religions - using "some people believe xyz" and then explaining what I do and don't believe, followed up with the need for respect on both sides.

I think that's the perfect way to go, especially at that age.

Heebijeebs · 12/09/2023 22:50

I've generally tackled it the same way I tackle religions - using "some people believe xyz" and then explaining what I do and don't believe, followed up with the need for respect on both sides.

I've noticed today my eldest has stated his pronouns on his new college profile - I'm yet to ask whether they were asked if they wanted to or not. Waiting for when I'm in the right headspace for that one!

SayingwhatIreallythink · 12/09/2023 22:50

Do you not think that in itself is worrying, zieb? How many transgender people did you know at that age?

SpiderMaam · 12/09/2023 22:47

When my kids came home wittering about the Gender Unicorn I gave myself an impromptu short haircut with the kitchen scissors and asked them if they were going to call me ‘dad’ from now on?

It was VERY theatrical and extremely liberating (the one other time I shocked them all into a similar open-mouthed silence was the day I threw a plastic hippo out of ’my bedroom window to stop them squabbling over it).

Bonus: whenever anyone mentions my dramatic change of ‘do (from bra strap length to cheekbone bob) I get to tell this story and can out myself as one of the tervish in a comedic fashion.

If it were my son I would probably just point at our giant male dog who had his testicles removed yonks ago but is still absolutely and unmistakably a boy dog 😄

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