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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Emailed HR

81 replies

Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 10:32

I was asked to update personal details this morning.

I had two options regarding sex and gender. What is your gender identity? Options I think were male/female/prefer not to say. And does your gender identity match the sex assigned at birth? Yes/no/prefer not to say.

I sent a very polite email asking them to consider an alternative as this does not represent me accurately. It's a bit nerve wracking. So far our university has been fairly balanced but watch this space 🙈

OP posts:
AllTheChaos · 11/09/2023 11:31

Also, very few people are ‘assigned’ a gender at birth. Some are, due to physical abnormalities or medical issues. Most simply have their physical sex observed and recorded.

Cowlover89 · 11/09/2023 11:22

Well done op!

BabyStopCryin · 11/09/2023 11:20

I’m my workplace they know my thoughts on the matter. I have never commented or sniggered at the pronoun badges or pronouns in email footers. I loathe the posters with the Q word, but applaud the ones highlighting menopause which use women throughout.

However I haven’t come across a man in the ladies loos or showers, and god help them if I do.

CornedBeef451 · 11/09/2023 11:18

I had this at work too.

We're encouraged to fill in our personal data but then there is no option for no gender.

I left it blank, I refuse to say I buy into the gender nonsense.

Good luck, you're very brave. My workplace is so unquestioningly Stonewalled I'm too afraid to speak up.

MontyCCU · 11/09/2023 11:17

I thought gender reassignment was the protected characteristic along with sex

Datun · 11/09/2023 11:16

Maddy70 · 11/09/2023 10:58

They have asked the appropriate questions you can always leave something blank if you don't agree

In which case, do you also agree with :

What is your gender identity / I don't have a gender identity. (Or, I don't believe in gender identity).

Or

What is your gender identity? / I only have a biological sex

If both beliefs are protected, as is the right not to believe in either of them, then it should be symmetrical.

MontyCCU · 11/09/2023 11:14

If I left anything blank, the form wouldn't save. No question at all about biological sex.

AnSolas · 11/09/2023 11:10

Maddy70 · 11/09/2023 10:58

They have asked the appropriate questions you can always leave something blank if you don't agree

No they have not

The emoloyer is collecting data they have no need to collect data on an employees "gender Identity".

But it will turn out that the reason that they are collecting this data is that somebody somewhere decided that term "gender Identity" could replace a PC.

BabyStopCryin · 11/09/2023 11:09

Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 10:41

Exactly. I politely said that while I respect that other people may feel they have a gender identity, I consider myself female on the basis of my sex and do not have a gender identity. That their question did not reflect who I am and could we consider rephrasing so we cater for all participating.

I’d also ask what the point to asking this is? They may walk as well ask favourite vegetable or first pet name. Actually they’d better off asking if you have any allergies or health issues they need to be aware of.

RoseslnTheHospital · 11/09/2023 11:07

Maddy70 · 11/09/2023 10:58

They have asked the appropriate questions you can always leave something blank if you don't agree

Have they now? I'd ask them why they want to collect data about "gender identity" and what they intend to use it for, given that the relevant characteristics in the Equality Act are Sex and Gender Reassignment.. So, if it's about having data to monitor equality act characteristics, they should be asking about those specific characteristics, not "gender identity".

And if it's not about monitoring equality, then what is the reasonable and necessary use that they need this data for?

crumpet · 11/09/2023 11:04

the questions should be:
sex: male/female
are you transgender: yes/no
if yes what is your transgender identity?

maltravers · 11/09/2023 11:04

Maddy70 · 11/09/2023 10:58

They have asked the appropriate questions you can always leave something blank if you don't agree

Only appropriate if you believe in GI (which we don’t you’ll be shocked to hear).

MagpiePi · 11/09/2023 11:03

Maddy70 · 11/09/2023 10:58

They have asked the appropriate questions you can always leave something blank if you don't agree

But you can’t answer the question if it is only asking about gender rather than sex.
As has been said before ‘prefer not to say’ or ‘other’ is not appropriate.

MagpiePi · 11/09/2023 11:02

My employer (a Stonewall champion 🙄) is the same and I got into a dialogue with HR about it. I was told they had consulted with the company LGBTQWTF+ group who had advised them on the questions but they couldn’t be changed. I asked about how they can collect data in line with the equality act and analyse the gender (sex!) pay gap but haven’t got an answer. I also said it was non-inclusive to anyone who doesn’t believe in gender identity but haven’t heard about that either.
We do have the option to state ‘none’ under religion.

Igmum · 11/09/2023 10:59

I also work for a university and complained about this YEARS ago to HR, long before the Forstater case made it legit. I pointed out that we weren't collecting any information on a vital protected characteristic (sex). They replied that the format they collected data in was prescribed by HEFCE. Agree we need to change this but the rot goes deep

Maddy70 · 11/09/2023 10:58

They have asked the appropriate questions you can always leave something blank if you don't agree

Snittler · 11/09/2023 10:55

GlasgowGal82 · 11/09/2023 10:51

Can't you have a biological sex and a gender identity even if you don't agree that these can be different?

Yes. But you can also not have a gender identity.

I don’t “feel” or “identify” as a woman, but I have a female reproductive system so I am a woman.

I also have a personality that tends towards male traits, but they’re only male because society says so and not because they’re intrinsically linked with a penis.

Datun · 11/09/2023 10:54

Mumteedum

do you have any suggestions in mind, in case they ask?

Plasmodesmata · 11/09/2023 10:54

It's like "what is your religion"
with options Christian, Muslim, etc.
but no option to say "I don't have a religion".

MontyCCU · 11/09/2023 10:54

Glasgow that's what I asked

PosterBoy · 11/09/2023 10:53

GlasgowGal82 · 11/09/2023 10:51

Can't you have a biological sex and a gender identity even if you don't agree that these can be different?

Of course you can.

Some people don't have a gender identity. I know I don't. I just have a biological sex.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 11/09/2023 10:52

No you can’t if you think gender identity is nonsense no

you have a sex and that’s it.

Tinysoxxx · 11/09/2023 10:52

All that is needed is
Sex: male/female

If they really wanted or needed to:

Do you have an identity that is a different gender to your sex: Yes/no/prefer not to say

I think by reframing the subject as an identity then I could circle ‘no’

GlasgowGal82 · 11/09/2023 10:51

Can't you have a biological sex and a gender identity even if you don't agree that these can be different?

SeulementUneFois · 11/09/2023 10:50

Well done OP!
I'll take note of your wording in case I'm ever faced with something like that.

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