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Original poster

Emailed HR

81 replies

Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 10:32

I was asked to update personal details this morning.

I had two options regarding sex and gender. What is your gender identity? Options I think were male/female/prefer not to say. And does your gender identity match the sex assigned at birth? Yes/no/prefer not to say.

I sent a very polite email asking them to consider an alternative as this does not represent me accurately. It's a bit nerve wracking. So far our university has been fairly balanced but watch this space 🙈

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mopoji · 12/09/2023 14:26

CharlotteBog · 12/09/2023 13:21

Can you just have a gender?
Does it have to be an identity?
My sex is female/woman
My gender is female.

I completed a form today which asked for gender (not gender identity).

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Yes you (can and do) have a gender, but only if 'gender' means the same as 'sex'.

If 'gender' doesn't mean 'sex', then no, gender is not anything you can have.

Of course there is a sense of 'gender' which is not synonymous with 'sex'. (Check OED or another dictionary.) That's what seems to confuse people. But - I reiterate - if you want to use this other sense of 'gender', you make no sense if you talk of having a gender in anything like the way you have a sex.

CharlotteBog · 12/09/2023 13:21

Grammarnut · 12/09/2023 12:20

Most people do not have a gender identity. They have a sex. So how can you answer this question if not by implying you agree with gender identity?

Show quote history

Can you just have a gender?
Does it have to be an identity?
My sex is female/woman
My gender is female.

I completed a form today which asked for gender (not gender identity).

Grammarnut · 12/09/2023 12:20

GlasgowGal82 · 11/09/2023 10:51

Can't you have a biological sex and a gender identity even if you don't agree that these can be different?

Most people do not have a gender identity. They have a sex. So how can you answer this question if not by implying you agree with gender identity?

LizzieSiddal · 11/09/2023 23:12

Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 15:56

Ohhh ... just had an update to say they've changed it to what is your sex...and said it was mistake and thanks for flagging it up!

Amazing. Phew...we are still a moderate institution after all! I'm v happy with this 😊

Brilliant update! Well done for pointing out their “mistake”.

BettyFilous · 11/09/2023 23:04

I was watching over my eldest child’s shoulder as they completed the online registration form for their uni course last week and was pleased to see it asked for sex, not gender. It is a Stonewalled university which has previously been in the media for related issues. I hope it is a sign the adults are taking back control of the room.

Datun · 11/09/2023 21:25

Forester1 · 11/09/2023 19:26

On a related point has anyone seen a definition of a male or female gender identity?

Good question.

@LizaBizza, can you answer it?

maltravers · 11/09/2023 21:24

On a more positive note, I had to fill in an official medical questionnaire today which asked for my sex and said gender identity was not relevant to the question as it was a medical one. I’m not saying which organisation/questionnaire as I don’t want the flying monkeys of the Traliban to descend on them, but it was good to see some common sense.

SlippinJanie · 11/09/2023 21:22

Well done OP 👏

maltravers · 11/09/2023 21:10

On a more positive note, I had to fill in an official medical questionnaire today which asked for my sex and said gender identity was not relevant to the question. I’m not saying which one as I don’t want the flying monkeys of the Traliban to descend on them, but it was good to see some common sense.

PosterBoy · 11/09/2023 20:10

LizaBizza · 11/09/2023 19:52

" And does your gender identity match the sex assigned at birth? Yes/no/prefer not to say."

If you aren't trans, then just select Yes.

Did you read any of the thread or just go straight to 'post'?

LizaBizza · 11/09/2023 19:52

" And does your gender identity match the sex assigned at birth? Yes/no/prefer not to say."

If you aren't trans, then just select Yes.

Forester1 · 11/09/2023 19:26

On a related point has anyone seen a definition of a male or female gender identity?

Forester1 · 11/09/2023 19:16

Good news. I’ve raised a similar point around a staff survey and I think the more people start to query this stuff the better.

Redshoeblueshoe · 11/09/2023 17:37

Great update OP

AnSolas · 11/09/2023 17:14

GCAcademic · 11/09/2023 16:54

I was an inpatient on a gynae ward recently and the elderly lady in the bed next to me was asked that question. She and her husband looked totally confused while their middle-aged daughter snorted derisively. The anaesthetist did roll her eyes and say sardonically "oh yes, I've done aaaalll the training". I wasn't asked how I identified, perhaps because I wasn't having surgery, or perhaps because other members of staff weren't willing to ask the question?

I'm surprised that they haven't renamed the Women's Centre at that hospital to the "Assigned Female at Birth Centre". Yet.

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The Barren2, Bleeder, Breeder Centre

🙈

Yep I posted it
🤪

GCAcademic · 11/09/2023 16:54

Kilopascal · 11/09/2023 16:05

I think I've mentioned before that my elderly father, asked 'How do you identify?' by NHS staff, thought he was being asked for proof of identity.

It's alien language to so many people.

I was an inpatient on a gynae ward recently and the elderly lady in the bed next to me was asked that question. She and her husband looked totally confused while their middle-aged daughter snorted derisively. The anaesthetist did roll her eyes and say sardonically "oh yes, I've done aaaalll the training". I wasn't asked how I identified, perhaps because I wasn't having surgery, or perhaps because other members of staff weren't willing to ask the question?

I'm surprised that they haven't renamed the Women's Centre at that hospital to the "Assigned Female at Birth Centre". Yet.

Hubblebubble · 11/09/2023 16:16

So even the language is daft. I knew my son was of the male sex in my second trimester

Hubblebubble · 11/09/2023 16:15

Might be a bit off tangent, but sex isn't assigned at birth. For most of us, it's observed in utero with scans and/or NIPT testing.

IcakethereforeIam · 11/09/2023 16:13

That must be a relief for you, it's feels kind of ridiculous to say this but you've been brave. Well done. It was no small thing.

Kilopascal · 11/09/2023 16:05

I think I've mentioned before that my elderly father, asked 'How do you identify?' by NHS staff, thought he was being asked for proof of identity.

It's alien language to so many people.

tastytattie · 11/09/2023 16:04

Great they've realised. Result!

I originally came in to say that if they record gender identity without also recording biological sex the results are kind of meaningless as for statistical purposes you'd surely want to know how "gender identity" correlated with original biological sex?

AnSolas · 11/09/2023 16:03

Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 15:56

Ohhh ... just had an update to say they've changed it to what is your sex...and said it was mistake and thanks for flagging it up!

Amazing. Phew...we are still a moderate institution after all! I'm v happy with this 😊

Good for you👍👍

Small changes by being brave enough to ask the question let to good outcome

Original poster
Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 15:56

Ohhh ... just had an update to say they've changed it to what is your sex...and said it was mistake and thanks for flagging it up!

Amazing. Phew...we are still a moderate institution after all! I'm v happy with this 😊

OP posts:
Original poster
Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 15:50

@Whatsnewpussyhat well yes I would agree, they should use sex but many places even pre gender identity used gender as a stand in for sex for some misplaced sense of politeness.

I'm at pains to not come across as having a problem with other people, just making a request to clearly state my own record.

To my mind, if they have a what's your gender ...male female. What is your gender identity... male/female/non binary/other/not applicable and does your sex match your gender at birth...blah blah ... should cover all bases well enough. I want the not applicable as an option and someway of recording femaleness based in fact not self identity.

OP posts:
mopoji · 11/09/2023 14:48

GlasgowGal82 · 11/09/2023 10:51

Can't you have a biological sex and a gender identity even if you don't agree that these can be different?

No, you can't. There is no such thing as gender identity.

Of course some people think they have a gender identity, just as some think they have a guardian angel. But they really don't. Because there is no such thing.

Of course we should be tolerant of those who think they have a guardian angel or whatever. But we are still allowed to point out their mistake, even so, and a fortiori on official forms..

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