Page 10 | New sports club at DC’s high school only open to LGBTQ+ pupils and their allies

SirChenjins · 2023-09-08T09:46:48+00:00

Are they legally allowed to exclude GC pupils? Or pupils who are not one of the special alphabet children? This is a really great club - nothing like the school has offered before. Seems a shame to limit attendance based on sexuality/gender ideology rather than interest/ability. We’re in Scotland if that makes a difference.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 13/09/2023 08:24

Would probably have been a worse club if it was jam packed full of straight allies 🤔

RufustheFactualReindeer · 13/09/2023 08:23

millicent

i asked one of my sons if he ever went to the lgb club (as it was back then before any one gets overexcited) and it was a definite no

MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 13/09/2023 08:16

FWIW I asked my dc (19 and 16. One G, one B - as in LGB.) They both said they wouldn't attend a group like that because its a stupid way of deciding who can join. They are GC, although both have T/NB friends so perfectly able to be nice even if they disagree with the ideology.

nothingcomestonothing · 13/09/2023 08:04

Perhapsperhapsto · 13/09/2023 07:29

I say that because the club is open to non- LGBTQ kids - there for her ‘straight’ son can go and enjoy the sport/ activity he’s so impassioned about just as long as he’s happy to play alongside gay kids.
But for whatever reason, he’s unwilling to… and the only obvious reason is it’s because it’s aimed mainly at LGBTQ kids.

The OPs objection, as I think you know, is that a specific sport is only open to those willing to say they subscribe to a political ideology. It is for LGBTQ+ and allies. If that means it's for anyone, why is is badged for LGBTQ+.and allies?

In the same post you say her straight son can go, and that it's aimed at LGBTQ+ kids. In previous posts you've said the purpose of the club is that LGBTQ+ kids don't have to be around straights, but now you think OPs son should go? It doesn't seem a very coherent position that you're arguing here.

MargotBamborough · 13/09/2023 07:35

Perhapsperhapsto · 13/09/2023 07:29

I say that because the club is open to non- LGBTQ kids - there for her ‘straight’ son can go and enjoy the sport/ activity he’s so impassioned about just as long as he’s happy to play alongside gay kids.
But for whatever reason, he’s unwilling to… and the only obvious reason is it’s because it’s aimed mainly at LGBTQ kids.

Why don't they just call it a mixed sex sports club then?

Perhapsperhapsto · 13/09/2023 07:34

@DeeKavCoffee ’This thread seems more about complaining about the fact that there is a club for LGBTQ+ pupils, rather than complaining that there is no alternative. ‘

totally agree. And the OP seem to be happy to drag this one on without actually going to the school, who would presumably tell her - he’s not excluded just as they would if a club was aimed a BAME kids in a mostly white school. But if he goes don’t be racist. And don’t go to the LGBTQ club if you’re not going to be nice to those kids either .

How old is OPs son that he has such hard GC views that he can’t even mingle with LGBTQ kids at a lunchtime club without it affecting him negatively??

Perhapsperhapsto · 13/09/2023 07:29

I say that because the club is open to non- LGBTQ kids - there for her ‘straight’ son can go and enjoy the sport/ activity he’s so impassioned about just as long as he’s happy to play alongside gay kids.
But for whatever reason, he’s unwilling to… and the only obvious reason is it’s because it’s aimed mainly at LGBTQ kids.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 12/09/2023 19:44

RufustheFactualReindeer · 12/09/2023 18:42

It’s dreadful behaviour empress

lying about a child

Yes, it is.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 12/09/2023 18:42

It’s dreadful behaviour empress

lying about a child

EmpressaurusOfCats · 12/09/2023 14:05

RufustheFactualReindeer · 12/09/2023 13:18

Where exactly did the OP say her son ‘doesn’t want to be with the gay kids?’

he hasn’t

this particular poster keeps putt Words in his mouth and has been deleted for it a number of times

Thanks Rufus, that makes a lot more sense.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 12/09/2023 13:18

Where exactly did the OP say her son ‘doesn’t want to be with the gay kids?’

he hasn’t

this particular poster keeps putt Words in his mouth and has been deleted for it a number of times

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 12/09/2023 12:26

Rather difficult though to create the impression that 'LGBT' is code for nerds and odd balls and non sporty types.

Sad to say, but some clubs like this draw in the nerds and odd balls and non sporty types and convince them they're T.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 12/09/2023 11:56

Perhapsperhapsto · 12/09/2023 11:05

‘A child can be gay/lesbian or support gay/lesbian rights but be GC - can they attend the club?’

OP, as your kid isn’t even gay ( apparently) why are you so bothered. Seems to me that this amazing, one off, can’t be done by your child anywhere else club would be a lot kore accepting and welcoming than most posters on this thread.
But again, why the song and dance? Your child can go, and the fact that he isn’t because he doesn’t want to be with the gay kids is actually pretty sad.

Where exactly did the OP say her son ‘doesn’t want to be with the gay kids?’

Original poster

SirChenjins · 12/09/2023 11:53

Thanks for those excellent suggestions @OhHolyJesus , I'll follow this up with them

OP posts:

Snowypeaks · 12/09/2023 11:48

@Maddy70
It's single sex spaces/sports/facilities.

There is already an LGBTQ club at the school. (How "safe" it is for lesbians and gays is a matter of opinion, but it exists.)

So...

Swimming for all plus an hour of women-only swimming twice a week. Everybody gets to swim.
Niche sport training only for LGBTQ+ children and their allies. Everybody does not get the opportunity to learn. The only children who will learn this sport are those who are prepared to subscribe to a political ideology.

These two things are not the same.

@OhHolyJesus
Brilliant advice.

Original poster

SirChenjins · 12/09/2023 11:26

@Perhapsperhapsto rather than ignoring the questions that have posed repeatedly throughout the thread how about actually answering some of them? Can you do that in a coherent and insightful way?

OP posts:

Maddy70 · 12/09/2023 11:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Perhapsperhapsto · 12/09/2023 11:05

‘A child can be gay/lesbian or support gay/lesbian rights but be GC - can they attend the club?’

OP, as your kid isn’t even gay ( apparently) why are you so bothered. Seems to me that this amazing, one off, can’t be done by your child anywhere else club would be a lot kore accepting and welcoming than most posters on this thread.
But again, why the song and dance? Your child can go, and the fact that he isn’t because he doesn’t want to be with the gay kids is actually pretty sad.

SammyScrounge · 12/09/2023 10:20

ColleenDonaghy · 08/09/2023 11:37

OK, so this club isn't for him. That's ok, I'm sure there are other places he can try elsewhere. Not every club is for everyone.

Show quote history

School facilities are for everyone. Every club on school property using its facilities is open to everyone. LGBT children should not be 'othering' themselves, nor be seen to be favoured just because they are LGBTor to have the power to exclude non-LGBT children.
I'd like to be a fly on the wall when children are waved away and told to try elsewhere (such a lofty dismissive tone to use towards a child) when they are on school premises.

Original poster

SirChenjins · 12/09/2023 09:24

DisquietintheRanks · 12/09/2023 09:03

If their ideology directly conflicts with the aims of the club (which I presume includes allowing trans children to play sport as members of their chosen gender) then you can see why that's not going to work.

I'm assume you are OK with trans girls not being allowed to join girls sports teams?

And that's where the problem lies. A child can be gay/lesbian or support gay/lesbian rights but be GC - can they attend the club? A child can be trans and believe that lesbians should acquiesce to the will of males - can they attend? A child can be female and not want to compete against male bodies players - can they attend? Etc.

Ideology in this case is meaningless.

OP posts:

OhHolyJesus · 12/09/2023 09:10

Reading through I can see you have a lot of good advice already OP and I'm pleased you're going to raise it and you are under no obligation to share details of that conversation with us here, although many of us are furious for you and your DS so are keen to know how it concludes.

This is direct discrimination based on belief and the school have a duty to consider PSED and 'foster good relations' between different groups. They also have a duty to educate children without indoctrinating them and asking children to disclose their sexual orientation is a safeguarding red flag.

If you felt able, perhaps after the school has been challenged, I would tell your MSP and/or email Miriam Cates who has been doing amazing work on schools.

I saw a clip of her speaking to the Ofstead candidate about the indoctrination of children at school and how it happens sort of outside of the classroom. Sex Matters put it here and they have a lot of advice for parents on their website.

I hope the Head realises that this initiative, though perhaps well-meant, actually is in breach of their duties and make the appropriate change and open it up to everyone without exception, after all they are kids and there should be no hierarchy amongst pupils and sporting opportunities offered to them at lunch hours.

DisquietintheRanks · 12/09/2023 09:03

If their ideology directly conflicts with the aims of the club (which I presume includes allowing trans children to play sport as members of their chosen gender) then you can see why that's not going to work.

I'm assume you are OK with trans girls not being allowed to join girls sports teams?

Original poster

SirChenjins · 12/09/2023 08:36

DeeKavCoffee · 12/09/2023 00:34

This thread seems more about complaining about the fact that there is a club for LGBTQ+ pupils, rather than complaining that there is no alternative.

I'm sure if OP's child wants a non-LGBTQ+ specific club, and there's enough interest, they can start one. Otherwise, trying to get the first one stopped seems extremely petty, if not hateful.

Not at all. There's already a lunchtime club for LGBetc children - it's been running for a while now. I haven't once said I want this new sports club stopped, don't put words in my mouth. What I am saying is that a (state) school should not require children to declare their allegiance to a particular ideology in order to take part in a lunchtime sport.

OP posts:

MargotBamborough · 12/09/2023 07:42

DeeKavCoffee · 12/09/2023 00:34

This thread seems more about complaining about the fact that there is a club for LGBTQ+ pupils, rather than complaining that there is no alternative.

I'm sure if OP's child wants a non-LGBTQ+ specific club, and there's enough interest, they can start one. Otherwise, trying to get the first one stopped seems extremely petty, if not hateful.

I don't think anybody is saying it should be stopped. People have said either that it should be an extra, with a separate club for the rest of the student population, or that the label should be dropped so that it is just a mixed sex club which anyone can join. Having a sport which only people who identify a certain way can play is not the way to increase acceptance of LGBTQ+ students.

nothingcomestonothing · 12/09/2023 07:37

DeeKavCoffee · 12/09/2023 00:34

This thread seems more about complaining about the fact that there is a club for LGBTQ+ pupils, rather than complaining that there is no alternative.

I'm sure if OP's child wants a non-LGBTQ+ specific club, and there's enough interest, they can start one. Otherwise, trying to get the first one stopped seems extremely petty, if not hateful.

This thread is about a school providing a sport club which is only open to those who subscribe to a particular political ideology. It's like a school starting a foot golf club only for Marxists. It's not okay for a school to only provide a sports club to children who have a certain political belief.

And saying that something is unfair or unwise is not 'hateful'.