The gender war is over in Britain apparently

I don't want to derail the thread either but killing off Brexit by stealth, instead of campaigning for another referendum, sounds like seriously undemocratic behaviour. I say that as a remainer who is still dismayed by what happened.

The particular form of Brexit we got, little short of hard, was pushed in a seriously in democratic manner don’t forget.

We do not live in a democracy. The particular form we have is ranked as minimal democracy, and the trend is to minimise further.

This is the problem

And because trans gender is seen as legitimate rather than a MH issue or psychiatric issue to address and treat like that, doctors will be issuing these anyway, regardless of how many doctors are needed.

No one is asking the right questions, its just accepted that if you feel like this, you must be this and we'll issue the certificate for you

I don't want to derail the thread either but killing off Brexit by stealth, instead of campaigning for another referendum, sounds like seriously undemocratic behaviour. I say that as a remainer who is still dismayed by what happened.

And to get my post back on track, that's a good demonstration of why so many of us don't trust Labour (or in my case, any party) to keep their word on gender.

You only need to look back a relatively short period of time (1980s) to see that Labour were all for leaving the European bloc. Plenty of people who were Labour then are still involved in the party, albeit on a more senior level these days.

I am an ex-pat in the US and have exactly the same problem… only worse. On the one hand, the Democrats who are all in favour of trans rights without a thought guven to those of women and children. On the other, the prospect of a Republican President and Congress that would carry on handing over anything that isn’t nailed down to their mates. Even more horrible is the prospect of Trump as President… I sometimes find myself hoping that he’ll stand as a third candidate and split the right-wing vote, then I realise that would hand the Presidency to the Dems and I have to pour myself another glass of wine. I mean, I’d probably do that anyway , but still.

That’s especially the case now that gender dysphoria is no longer classified – and stigmatised – as a psychiatric disorder.

From that Guardian article by Annaliese Dodds

Not strictly relevant to the point we're discussing, but the sentence I quoted seems to imply that it's fine that my own diagnosis, bipolar affective disorder, is stigmatised. After all, it is a psychiatric disorder

I don't for one moment think Labour are supportive of Brexit. So called improving the deal is likely to mean closer ties to Europe in piecemeal fashion. Brexit will die by stealth. RIP. At least I hope so. Let's not derail the thread by my aside comment though.

Good news OP.

Fortunately I don't have that shitshow to add to the list but apologies for missing out the absolute joke that is the green party.

Looks highly likely my ballot will feature a beautiful portrait of a cock and balls... With a note of what sex that belongs to. It really upsets me to waste my vote but I currently see no viable alternative.

But Labour are supportive of Brexit.

Hey, if you're in Scotland at least you can add the SNP to the list of parties you can't vote for! 🙄

Sorry, the 'can't you read' comment was rude and unnecessary. Apologies.

Feeling exactly the same.

No idea what to do in the next election because I can't see myself voting labour, lib dems are a joke and voting tory is something I've never considered.

This would be the Labour that said they’d toughen LGBTQIA+ “hate crimes” to make them aggravated crimes, when it’s been rightly pointed out by a think tank that this risks stifling and silencing debate? That Labour?

The Labour who said all that didn’t matter because the think tank in question is a right wing one, so therefore beyond the pale and an invalid point of view? That Labour?

Wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them. Leopards don’t change their spots, even if Starmer has realised alienating GC women is a vote loser. They’ll say whatever then revert to misogynist type.

Labour's policy is to continue Brexit, keep to Tory public spending levels and maintain 2 child limit. What am I voting for that is worth giving up women's rights?

The Tories don't have my support. Can't you read? I said I am a left wing ex-Labour voter who will never vote Tory.

Hell yes. I'm disappointed with Labour but another Tory term. I care a lot about the gender issue but people need to put bread on the table and we need to start backtracking on Brexit. We'll be like a developing country if the Tories get another five years. Stay with Labour but keep fighting our corner.

You'd rather have the tories. What exactly would they have to do to lose your support?

Yes, so boring and puerile to worry about the possibility of another term or hung parliament.

I'm sorry, I know that labour's 'don't scare the horses' lack of policies is disappointing, but the tories are continuing to dismantle everything and hand it to their mates on a daily basis. A decade of disaster capitalism and failed austerity.

Labour will make getting a GRC easier. But no one is allowed to ask to see a GRC anyway so how are people supposed to know who has one and who doesn't?

I voted Labour 1992-2017. The gender wars have just opened my eyes to the myriad ways the Labour party is institutionally misogynist (sex work is work, liberal crime policies, safeguarding fails, refusal to listen to women and outright sex discrimination e.g. Glasgow, Nottingham, closing down of free speech). Not just self-ID.

All of this. I was raised in a third generation left household. I had always thought the Left was on the Right Side of History. I've been thoroughly disabused of that error in the past few years. It's been immensely uncomfortable and difficult to learn that, but as the saying roughly goes - that which can be destroyed by the truth deserves to be.

I don't trust Labour on this. My local candidate has a 'Trans Ally' text and flag in her bio and refused to meet to discuss gender issues.

I voted Labour 1992-2017. The gender wars have just opened my eyes to the myriad ways the Labour party is institutionally misogynist (sex work is work, liberal crime policies, safeguarding fails, refusal to listen to women and outright sex discrimination e.g. Glasgow, Nottingham, closing down of free speech). Not just self-ID.

And bore off with 'Tories are just as bad / worse for women'. It's so puerile. I'm left wing, I will never vote Tory. I expect Labour to do better than them - but given they are not going to change tax policies, the two child cap, public investment or indeed do anything that will benefit women and families, I'd personally rather have the Tories who do at least allow public discussion and debate among their cabinet on this issue.

I don't think Labour have any idea how much damage they have done.

I may still end up voting for them next election because I think a hung parliament would be worse. But if I do, I hope it'll be for the last time. I can't imagine ever going back.

Also, I think Wes Streeting and other loud TRA Labour activists ( Ben Bradshaw ever more vocal, Nadia Whittome etc) will be surprised to hear they no longer subscribe to gender ideology. And In fact, last week Wes Streeting was telling Scotland that the differences between Scottish and UK Labour were "subtle"

It's going to take a long time for me to trust Labour again. But to be honest, I have stopped trusting politicians, regardless of the colour of their badge.

It was dropped 'quietly' because once you examine it, and ask some questions, not much has really changed - apart from the principle of not having to have a doctor sign it off. The Labour party has not changed its mind-set or commitment at all. The reason it was kept quiet was to avoid scrutiny. If it ws really such a big and fundamental change it would have been widely advertised and talked about non stop.