Caroline Nokes says it's 'depressing' to regard men as dangerous

Male people in women's spaces in full knowledge that this excludes some women and distresses many others have already demonstrated that they are boundary breakers with no respect for women. Nice, harmless, decent males don't use women.

And the prison statistics and the growing body count behind the well known names and infamous incidents demonstrate I'm afraid that crossing your fingers, believing in fairies and insisting that identifying as a woman renders a male a harmless butterfly, is batshit.

It basically means you are willing to harm women to indulge male people, on an entirely binary, sex based basis.

men that ID as women would be almost totally non violent males, - I am guessing that might be true amongst those genuinely having body dysmorphia - but it would be good to have proper research.

The worry is about those males who jump on the trans bandwagon in order to gain access to women's spaces or to provide a sporting advantage.

How does she explain, for example, the group of unrelated males joining in the rape of a young woman in Magaluf a couple of weeks ago. A lot of bad apples randomly coming together in the same place?

I see she “both sides” the violence at protests as well! Yes, Caroline, there has been violence at both pro-trans and pro-women’s protests, but on every occasion, the violence is very much going in one direction and is generally instigated by one particular sex. I wonder which sex it is? 🤨

The idea is that the 0.5% of men that ID as women would be almost totally non violent males, or at most at the prevalence of violent women amongst women across the board, ie statistically close to zero.

In other words, a self selecting group no more dangerous than women as a whole. And thus of no risk to women, or no more risk than any other women.

If the male propensity to violence is innate, then why wouldn't it be equally likely to affect any biological male, regardless of gender identity?

If the male propensity to violence is learned, then why wouldn't it be equally likely to affect anyone brought up as a boy, regardless of whatever gender identity they may subsequently adopt?

She very much does know what men can be like - she says Stanley Johnson behaved inappropriately towards her - so she’s not naive at all but just saying whatever suits her argument.

Yes it's just 'depressing' that prisons are full of violent males at a ratio that far exceeds the number of female prisoners never might the rate of violent or sex offenders.

It's all about feelings rather than evidence.

Which is really rather telling.

She does get it. She refuses to compromise. She believes she's on the right side of history.

Everyone got the memo. Everyone had a choice. Everyone made their decision.

Regardless of danger or no, the women's institute is not for people with penises. It was only ever intended for the female sex. Not the postmodern appropriation of 'womanhood' care of gender ideology.

There are aplenty of clubs and societies to join which are mixed sex. TW are free to join those.

It's not a big ask to exclude males, especially those with zero surgery.

It's depressing that Caroline Nokes doesn't get this.

The WEC, like anything else currently specifically for women and supposed to be representing women, is under the ownership of those whose main goal is the control and suppression of women for the benefit of a small number of male people. Who see women as resources and not equally human. It's the same reason why at this point in history, any laws on misogyny would be a disaster for women.

What is depressing is that so many men are indeed violent and abusive.

Perhaps if they stopped doing that and said 'maaaate' a bit more it would all be sorted.

I wonder if she's planning to stand down, or thinks she will be de-seated, and is making ever more bizarre statements in line with whatever she has her eye on.

Stonewall are recruiting, for instance.

Very good analogy from popebishop.

Unfortunately my MP😡

Forewarned is forearmed.

She’s a proper MRA isn’t she? How on earth did she end up being Chair of the WEC?

many men ARE dangerous. just look at the stats. they are the ones to commit the most heinous of crimes no matter how loudly the incels and "not all men" lot scream . she's an idiot.

(Whoever brings Letby into this discussion is as dense as CN.)

The objection to trans women is not that they are dangerous (though some of them are). It's that they're men. Why is she so stupid?

I think it's depressing to regard cars as 'dangerous'. To say that they can and do harm people is just pure bigotry. Everyone using a car is only doing so for perfectly normal reasons like getting about.

To put any kind of 'safeguarding' in them just because they are physically automobiles is ridiculous. We should identify the ones that hurt people and put seatbelts in those ones only. Or we could risk-assess each street and put a speed limit only on the ones where it's been proven that people have been actually "hurt" - which we all know doesn't happen.

@Mischance the interesting thing is that the stories I heard about my father as a child were that he wasn't a sweet little toddler at all, he was an absolute sh!t. And frequently in fights as a teen. Aggressive his whole life. It wasn't something that suddenly started later in life, he was always that way. I also know that his own father used to knock the kids around (encouraged by his mother, because if he was bashing the kids, he wasn't bashing her). Modelled what he saw at home, definitely, but I also think he had it in him to behave that way, because not everyone who grows up with that legacy carries it forward.

Sadiq Khan is on the right lines, in the sense that men need to take control of themselves and be responsible for their own behaviour and other men's. The specifics may not be right, but the principle is. It's in women's interest that MVAWG goes away, but it really shouldn't be up to us to fix it.

@MadamePickle
Brilliant post.

C'mon, Sadiq has it all sorted
"Maaaate!"

My father was a violent, abusive man.
My husband is a kind, gentle man.
My son is also a kind, gentle man, brought up by both of us to respect women and use his size and strength carefully.
I really believe that male role models are very important in the upbringing of boys. Unfortunately good role models are few and far between. Men like Andrew Tait and other misogynistic, violent, pornographic social media perpetuates the very worst male traits.