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Original poster

Gendered nouns and gender ideology in other languages - can anyone here answer my question?

58 replies

mauvish · 21/08/2023 19:49

English doesn't have gendered nouns. I think boats are always "she"; I can't think of any other examples at all. Similarly we don't then have to alter adjectives or ay verb forms to match the gendered noun.

But many other languages have at least 2 genders to their nouns, or even 3 (masc, fem, neuter) (There may be others with more but I'm not aware of them).

So in English, if we talk about a man but refer to him as "she" (for example), it stands out. And this flavours the debate over the issue.

Does this have a similar impact in other languages? Un homme isn't going to be une homme (or in the circumstances, is it?) I guess they "become" une femme and everything else about them linguistically also has to be feminine? How does a "lady dick" work, linguistically, where "lady" (fem) SHOULD agree with "dick" (masc) but doesn't? (other examples are, I'm sure, available!)

I kind of feel that where everything else in the sentence is used in the "neuter" sense, it can both dilute and amplify the effect of calling a person by their non-birth sex, but maybe the opposite might be true in gendered languages? Does anyone know?

OP posts:
nadapersonal · 21/08/2023 20:05

nadapersonal · 21/08/2023 20:03

Speakers of some languages e.g. Spanish are trying to make the language more inclusive by eliminating noun gender when it refers to people. In traditional use of the language (and other Romance langs at least), if you have a group of 100 children comprising 99 girls and 1 boy, the group would be referred to using the "male" version of the noun e.g. "niños" (in contrast to "niñas", which means "girls"). Some people are advocating for a gender neutral version i.e. "niñes".

In your "lady dick" example, this is not really a term referring to a person. It refers to a thing, no?

*Sorry, meant to say SOME speakers of some languages...

Original poster
mauvish · 21/08/2023 20:04

I have a degree in Spanish but "dick" is not a word I use regularly (fancy that!) so I've just refreshed my memory - and you're right, it's feminine!

I guess there must be other languages where it's not?

I have several spanish/latino acquaintances, but I feel strangely disinclined to ask a question such as "como funciona un "lady dick" en espanol?" 😂

OP posts:
Ohshitiveturnedintomymother · 21/08/2023 20:04

WarriorN · 21/08/2023 19:53

No idea but my very GNC and now fully fledged feminist friend's daughter walked out of French in protest once because she declared that the language was too sexist 🤩

She later carefully chose a back back for duke of Edinburgh awards that was engineered for women's bodies. We are so proud of her. I think she simply rolls her eyes at gender stuff.

Why are you proud of this? The French thing, not the backpack which makes sense?

nadapersonal · 21/08/2023 20:03

Speakers of some languages e.g. Spanish are trying to make the language more inclusive by eliminating noun gender when it refers to people. In traditional use of the language (and other Romance langs at least), if you have a group of 100 children comprising 99 girls and 1 boy, the group would be referred to using the "male" version of the noun e.g. "niños" (in contrast to "niñas", which means "girls"). Some people are advocating for a gender neutral version i.e. "niñes".

In your "lady dick" example, this is not really a term referring to a person. It refers to a thing, no?

DoAWheelie · 21/08/2023 20:02

ImDoingThisNow · 21/08/2023 19:55

I have wondered about this. We have he/ she/ it. If it’s not a he or a she, then it’s an it. Other languages assign gender to everything.

(But why of why don’t we use 'it' for non binary instead of the twee 'they')

Because it's dehumanising to refer to a person the same way you'd talk about a random object.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 21/08/2023 19:59

I'm English but teach a few European languages. I admit I'm not super up on what's going on with the language around the gender debate in other countries, but I don't think your examples would actually cause a problem. If a trans-identifying man considers himself a woman, he'd call himself e.g. in French une femme.

The lady dick thing <shudder> wouldn't necessarily cause a language gender problem, because genders of things (as opposed to people) are not related to the meaning or nature of the thing. So there's no particular reason why the word for a duck might not be feminine or breasts be masculine (they are in French).

ImDoingThisNow · 21/08/2023 19:55

I have wondered about this. We have he/ she/ it. If it’s not a he or a she, then it’s an it. Other languages assign gender to everything.

(But why of why don’t we use 'it' for non binary instead of the twee 'they')

WarriorN · 21/08/2023 19:53

No idea but my very GNC and now fully fledged feminist friend's daughter walked out of French in protest once because she declared that the language was too sexist 🤩

She later carefully chose a back back for duke of Edinburgh awards that was engineered for women's bodies. We are so proud of her. I think she simply rolls her eyes at gender stuff.