Iain MacWhirther in the Times Scotland Today

Thank you @FigRollsAlly. That is exactly my point, which is that it is extremely sensible and the right time to reengage with Labour because if gender critical women aren't part of the conversation they have, we know what happens. We are excluded.

I know some don't like it. But there is no benefit in not having these difficult conversations. The Tory Party if they lose and that looks very likely will have zero traction over the public narrative.

Leave Labour to it is a mistake. Gnashing on about their failures here won't get those guarantees and nor will bigging up Badenoch. Yes she may give Labour a hard time in opposition but opposition is nowhere.

Of course, I'm still waiting on that simple as legislative change that could be done in a month or two so none of this is necessary.... of course it wouldn't be very fair to say that the delay for that is political, is it? Instead Badenoch has appointed a toilet tsar which is thinking about the need for single sec toilets. Footling stuff given what she could apparently do.

Although I really hope that Tories like Badenoch who are willing to fight our corner will still be in parliament after the next election we have to be prepared to lose some. Also, if Labour are resurgent and the LibDems succeed in ousting Tories from the seats they are targeting this will affect the make up of Select Committees. We have to really hope that there will be enough Labour MPs by then who are not afraid to speak out and challenge the detail of anything that’s proposed by a new government.

It looks like a very safe seat for her, going on the numbers from 2001 onwards.

That’s assuming Badenoch keeps her seat of course!

This all makes a lot of sense to me. It's what I thought you were saying at the start but it's even clearer put this way.

I don't expect a radical statement on this, he's quite clearly waiting for Badenoch to do the hard work, and why wouldn't he, because once Labour get into office they will get the same set of answers she's been given in terms of resolving the legal issues.

I suspect you are right. As much as I can't abide this kind of weasly political play, it's how the world of politics functions. If this ends up being the outcome there will be many who remember who did the heavy lifting. Badenoch in opposition (assuming a Labour win) would be quite the formidable opponent on this subject.

Starmer is completely opportunistic! This morning he said that he would not be able to go to university these days? What does that mean? It's rubbish. But it's designed by a committee of advisers to cut through to voters.

My other point is that this does actually seem to be working with women voters above male ones.

The man has been slowly testing opinions out for the last 18 months. And slowly the Labour machine adjusts to whatever message is said to work. That is politics for all political parties. I mean, they test out ideas all the time. Including here!

I don't expect a radical statement on this, he's quite clearly waiting for Badenoch to do the hard work, and why wouldn't he, because once Labour get into office they will get the same set of answers she's been given in terms of resolving the legal issues.

@IwantToRetire - now you are just rude, and if you disagree that's fine. But you don't have to post like that to do so.

The Morning Star was on this from at least 2017, allowing articles attacking the Tories' position in being about to adopt gender self-ID.

The Tories nearly did it as well. The feckin Tories. It would have imposed this shit on the whole of the UK, and would have been almost impossible to undo.

Sorry to go a bit Wolfie Smith here, but there were always 'communists' who remembered that the real roots of dismantling oppression lie in class analysis, including sex class analysis - and that oppression (and the tools of oppression) are different from 'discrimination'.

There are some people on this board who are so angry about Labour that they are prepared to read the Telegraph and an attack piece without taking in the wider context

Yet again your mono view of the world means you dont even read what people are saying.

Its not that its the Telegraph, it was to show how utterly pathetic MacWhirther's article is. Like he had just crawled out from under a stone and realised it was raining.

Get a grip.

You are the one who consistently fails to see the wider context, and instead stick with this egotistical left analysis that anybody who doesn't use the left's schoolboy dogma is stupid.

Links to article is papers are to show that (most) of the contributors to FWR are interested in looking round and finding out what is being said.

Reading articles in the Telegraph doesn't mean we believe in them. Added to whichthe so called left liberal media doesn't publish anything worth reading or is supportive of women.

Maybe just for once you could link to an article that actual shows why anyone should vote Labour instead of telling us we are tarnished by the links we post.

You aren't exactly helping Labour's cause by saying Starmer is just the run of the mill opportunistic politician and we shouldn't trust a word he says.

Am starting to think we should all vote tory, and then stage a coup. Get Sunak out and vote in Badenoch.

I wonder how much membership to the tory party is. We would join the Tory Women's Declaration Group.

It's not complacency- it's reality. And it's something all parties do. For decades.

But are a good example of why things never change.

Goodness knows, if the Suffragettes had had your attitudes we wouldn't even have the vote.

Nobody is attacking you. It just your attitude is bizarre. But if that's what gets you thought each day fine.

Some of us dont want to live as victims of a system that we are just the dregs at the edge of society.

Abso fucking lutely!

That photo, and the ITV interviewer who so made Sturgeon admit her faulty thinking on Self ID, she nearly choked on her words.

It is the background on my phone. It reminds me every time that I know what we are up against.

@RealityFan - I don't know how many reverse ferrets you can have until it becomes a rotating ferret!

The man who took that photograph, Mike Gibbons (for the Spindrift agency) did more for women's rights than most male media people can ever dream of.

Yep, Labour ahead by 20 points with men, and 30 with women.

Starmer will live to regret any move to reverse ferret on his reverse ferret on Self ID when he wins in 2024. Those millions of women will eat him for breakfast if he tries to sell their rights to men.

It's not complacency- it's reality. And it's something all parties do. For decades.

There are some people on this board who are so angry about Labour that they are prepared to read the Telegraph and an attack piece without taking in the wider context. I know when I point this out it gets me grief, but Labour are twenty points ahead. Among women, they have an even greater share of the vote based on the current polling.

That is not silly. It says "Labour Government". So criticize Starmer for being weak on self ID, okay, but he's looking and acting like someone who is going to be PM.

Give it another six months and Starmer will have mostly adopted anything Kemi Badenoch proposes. Because he's a politician he will probably rebadge it.

And it's been going on for years.

And look where its got us.

Your complacency about politicians being two face and news papers writing rubbish is extraordinary.

These are the very elements that have allowed women to be ignored, erased, bullied and worse.

Why bother with anything.

How silly of women to even begin to think they should challenge the male way of life!

In fact how silly of any of us to bother with a forum called Feminism and Women's Rights.

The newspapers are full of political press releases or political briefings barely adjusted. This article is one of them. And it's been going on for years.

He seems to be acting politically.

You mean like Boris acted politically. You lie and promise things you cant ever achieve just to get into power.

And if that is the case what reason to voters have to vote for anyone if the political promises are meaningless.

Cant we just vote for civil servants to do their jobs and get rid of politicians.

Then we can have a national AGM each year. Assess progress by different departments and allocate budgets accordingly.

Seems that politicians are the problem. As is news reporting.

We should accept news papers are no longer news papers and just have a fact checker report each day and agree that the rest are just comics.

It's an interesting article for what it omits. I wouldn't be seething.

I am however not shocked by a politician telling a group of people he has to influence that he would not do the same as the Tory Party. Given their popularity in Scotland I imagine he was advised that he should communicate that he is respectful of devolution if not the SNP.

It's fine to be angry at Labour for their stance on self ID but Starmer is a politician. He seems to be acting politically.

Keir Starmer is now the least trustworthy man in British politics
There is seemingly no issue the Labour leader can’t find a way to flip-flop on

He now appears to be engaging in the bizarre process of reversing his reverse ferret. At an event in Rutherglen last week, Sir Keir said that he would not have blocked Sturgeon’s proposals, accusing government ministers of misusing their powers under devolution. The millions of women who wanted to vote Labour but felt unable to do so because of his support for this noxious, morally offensive policy will once again be seething.

They will not, however, be surprised. Starmer has accumulated more U-turns than a driving instructor. Just think about his promise to abolish tuition fees – clearly unfeasible and foolish, but still a pledge that appealed to Left-wing voters and pacified the left of his party.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/19/keir-starmer-is-now-the-least-trustworthy-man-in-british-po/

Not posting this because I agree with it (which I might) but in fact the journalists can turn out copy to suit their editor.

Maybe if newspapers published "news" which wouldn't be drowning in this deluge of verbage which has much more to do with writer's showing off to each other than actually reporting.

As said so many times on FWR, having sympathy for those with gender dysphoria doesn't mean you then disengage your brain when seeing some evidence of something that has gone far beyond helping people to be at ease with themselves.

(As said before above article can be read by going to archive.ph and pasting in Telegraph link above)

I am normally royally clueless about the implications of this sort of shit and I spotted it bloody years ago. All it entailed was a few seconds' thought about loopholes and the sort of people who like them, even before getting on to other stuff like sport.

Yes, the only change in his stance is from full on TRA to flip flop weasel.