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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

So apparently I am a hateful bigot. Who knew?!

188 replies

NoChanceYouMetalBastard · 19/08/2023 21:59

This has been playing on my mind since it happened. In a pub on Thursday night just gone. Very old building - toilets not great. No separate mens/ladies. Go through one door and there are 3 cubicles for all. Everyone has to queue together in this very small space. Big queue - a 6 foot 4 ish man with a beard wearing a flowery blue dress and lipstick, who was stood behind me, suggested that we speed things up by "us girls" going in together. I refused. That led to a tirade of abuse including that I was a hateful old bigot and it was known that 'girls' always shared a loo. Obviously he told all his pals at the table he was sat at, and they loudly discussed my transphobia until I necked my drink and left. It has been bothering me ever since! Just sharing/venting more than anything.

OP posts:
sixswans · 20/08/2023 09:44

Ffs now they want to be in the cubicle with us??? If you're a bigot for not wanting a massive hairy strange man in with you then sign me up for bigot club

VesperLind · 20/08/2023 09:43

It never occurred to me until reading this thread that men might think that women going to the loo together means they are going into the cubicle together. I suppose it’s kind of understandable in that men going to the loo together does mean that they are peeing side by side at the urinal. Fascinating.
In the situation that the OP was in, with “unisex” toilets, the only man in the cubicle with me would be DH, and only if necessary (why would it be?).

Tryingmuchharder · 20/08/2023 09:43

He was a vile man in womensface pushing his wants and ignoring women's needs. There appear to be a growing number of these 'trans' women. They pop on a frock and lippy and shove real women aside.

Ignore him, stand up to him, others are waking up to the vileness that is an entitled man in as dress in womensface.

ColinTheGenderMinotaur · 20/08/2023 09:42

I’d ask the venue to put up ‘One person per cubicle only’ signs.

Most of the patrons will think it’s to prevent drug taking or shagging only the beardy-weirdy will suspect it’s because of ‘her’.

Meadowfly · 20/08/2023 09:38

IMO you should let the venue know that a man was making you uncomfortable and describe what happened, the fact that they were wearing stereotypical female clothing is irrelevant. When you speak to the pub there’s no need to say that you assume it was a ‘transwoman’. Just describe what you saw.

NotTerfNorCis · 20/08/2023 09:28

These strange stories keep coming out.

A family friend had an experience very recently with a TW taxi driver in Kent. It was late at night, the taxi driver had come to collect him but due to crossed wires, wouldn't accept he was the customer until he called the taxi company to confirm. Bloke got in the taxi, only to reappear minutes later with a mark on his throat. The driver had grabbed him by the neck and scratched him. He was in a state of shock. But he daren't report it because it'll be his word against the driver, and he could end up being accused of transphobia. It seems he said something critical about the mix-up, and the driver attacked him.

Green777 · 20/08/2023 09:23

Forwarder · 20/08/2023 07:52

Exactly.

Phone the police and get it logged as a crime by the trans identified man. If he escalates your crime report might contribute to building a case.

This.

He is likely to do this again at some point and it would be wise to get him reported from now.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 20/08/2023 09:11

She's a perve!

HE!

TheirEminence · 20/08/2023 09:05

Even though we all do this, it’s probably not productive to think about what you could have said apart from the obvious ‘why would I share a toilet with a man?’. This person picked on you, you’re under no obligation to respond in any way.

He probably thought you were a soft target, and the reason he did is because it has become acceptable to bully women of a certain age (so-called ‘Karen’s). At the very least, this was sexually tinged bullying of a random stranger.

Pronounbegone · 20/08/2023 08:49

Sorry this happened to you OP. I can imagine the type of bar it is in that city. Quite a few shops/ offices in historic streets were converted to pubs this century. The developers could have made 2 (or 3) sets of loos but went for the cheap option that maximised drinking space. Compare that to the toilet provision in say The 3 Tuns - genuine old pub. Perfectly possible to achieve separation of sexs.

thepetrellies · 20/08/2023 08:25

That sounds awful. I'm sorry that happened to you and well done for refusing.

While it's easy to be clever after the fact (especially when it didn't happen to you), I'd be tempted to play him at his own game and say something like

'How dare you assume my gender identity without first verifying with me? I'm actually a man you, hateful bigot! I'm going to report you to the venue and the police for this egregious hate crime.'

Dibbydoos · 20/08/2023 08:17

So some trans person you don't know asks to share a toilet with you and you are a bigot for saying no. I'd say no too. She's a perve!

Forget it. Nothing stranger than folk!

FroodwithaKaren · 20/08/2023 08:08

If a bloke wants to call you names for refusing to take your pants down and pee for him in an enclosed space, then he can crack on with that, OP. It's the new 'frigid!' from blokes that women would not touch with a bargepole for bloody good reason. Largely that said blokes regard them as walking sex toys.

We all really have to grow much, much thicker skins and stop questioning ourselves for not kindly indulging what is bloody awful behaviour signalling that the bloke in question is as far from trustworthy and/or relationship material as you can get. No special exemptions for this based on the bloke's particular gender identity at the time.

loislovesstewie · 20/08/2023 08:06

He's been watching some disgusting porn and has a fetish.
Or ;
He's on a mission to make women feel uncomfortable.
Or;
He is going to sexually assault someone.
I'm sorry you had to deal with this miserable apology for a man,

AvengedQuince · 20/08/2023 07:59

FrangipaniBlue · 20/08/2023 07:58

It's just validation. They just want validation. Gals share loos. It's what we do, apparently.

I don't think they even wanted validation.

The more I read about incidents like this the more I genuinely think they are deliberately being inflammatory so that they can shout "see, look at all the transphobia, bigotry and persecution we have to suffer!"

Agreed.

FrangipaniBlue · 20/08/2023 07:58

It's just validation. They just want validation. Gals share loos. It's what we do, apparently.

I don't think they even wanted validation.

The more I read about incidents like this the more I genuinely think they are deliberately being inflammatory so that they can shout "see, look at all the transphobia, bigotry and persecution we have to suffer!"

LizzieSiddal · 20/08/2023 07:52

In that situation, when he’s mouthing off about you, I’d would like to think I’d say very loudly “Why would I go into a cubicle with a complete stranger”.

That would take away the male/female thing and he’d have no response to it.

Forwarder · 20/08/2023 07:52

Apollo441 · 19/08/2023 22:29

That was sexual harassment. Complain.

Exactly.

Phone the police and get it logged as a crime by the trans identified man. If he escalates your crime report might contribute to building a case.

Bewarethesealions · 20/08/2023 07:47

Babysharkdoodoodood · 19/08/2023 22:21

Photo didn’t add

Jesus, wouldn't even use that cubicle with my sister, let alone a rando transwoman!

DiabolicalFinial · 20/08/2023 07:33

The only times I have ever shared a cubicle with another adult were when I held up my SIL’s wedding dress so she could pee, and when I have needed a nurse whilst in hospital.

I often, however, go to the toilet facilities with other females (friends/family/etc) - sometimes because they need to go at the same time, and sometimes because we want to either continue a conversation or have a private conversation without the others!

Are there truly males out there who think that women going to the toilets together means that we go into the same cubicle and pee together? 😵‍💫

TheirEminence · 20/08/2023 05:44

As others have already said, I think you should inform the pub. You need not necessarily mention that it was a male customer asking you to undress and urinate in front of them - that alone is harassment. That you were then abused by this person’s friends is an aggravating factor. Then you can mention that you abuser was male (you cannot assume what their identity was). You were picked on because of your age and your sex. It’s classic sexual harassment (perp enjoying the discomfort caused by exercising power based on both being physically stronger, with the ability to rape, and the dominant social position that comes from being male), and it is perhaps even worth speaking to the police about it.

PriOn1 · 20/08/2023 05:08

RealityFan · 19/08/2023 23:49

Sorry, no pressure.

I am wondering what sort of world it is that this suggestion/tactic can even be considered.

And that if you were to make it known to people around you, you would be ignored or even belittled.

It makes me very angry that men have lost so much status, they should be at the very least supportive if you felt the need to ask for help.
For you to feel like men would not support you is maddening.

Had I been there and overheard this, you would not have been alone in dealing with this guy.

There are some great men around, who would defend random women. I have a friend who once literally stopped when driving past a woman who appeared to be being harrassed by her drunk boyfriend in the middle of the night, even though my friend is five foot three and likely would have been beaten up himself, had it gone the wrong way.

But in general, I’d say women accusing or complaining about men are routinely disbelieved. You only have to look at the Wi Spa incident to see how this type of accusation pans out.

Datun · 20/08/2023 04:30

NoChanceYouMetalBastard · 19/08/2023 22:27

I have been toying with the idea of messaging the pub but I don't think there is a point. The building is so old that I can't see how or where they could make provision for separately sexed toilets. (and people like this person would just use the womens anyway).

Didn't they have separate loos before? Mixed sex are a new phenomenon. What did they do before?

You can email them with Kemi Badenoch's guidance that female only provision should be provided. She's stipulating for all new buildings, but also mentions places like the old vic reverting back I believe.

SuperNewMe · 20/08/2023 03:18

NoChanceYouMetalBastard · 19/08/2023 21:59

This has been playing on my mind since it happened. In a pub on Thursday night just gone. Very old building - toilets not great. No separate mens/ladies. Go through one door and there are 3 cubicles for all. Everyone has to queue together in this very small space. Big queue - a 6 foot 4 ish man with a beard wearing a flowery blue dress and lipstick, who was stood behind me, suggested that we speed things up by "us girls" going in together. I refused. That led to a tirade of abuse including that I was a hateful old bigot and it was known that 'girls' always shared a loo. Obviously he told all his pals at the table he was sat at, and they loudly discussed my transphobia until I necked my drink and left. It has been bothering me ever since! Just sharing/venting more than anything.

That's a load of shit though. As a woman, I've never understood the whole "come with me to the toilet we can go together!" thing when I've been asked..
(Erŕ, nope lol)
It's not bigoted if this happened to go to the toilet by yourself.
(Love your username by the way 😁)

misogynyisbigotry · 20/08/2023 02:22

Whatsnewpussyhat · 20/08/2023 00:36

You should of told him you identified as a man op.

Back in my dodgy nightclub days, I'd go in the loos with my mate, but only because they either purposely didn't have locks on the cubicles or locks were broken, so one would hold door shut while the other went the loo, then swapped.

Men thinking women all go the loo together is just another wank fantasy.

Ah, this might work. "Lady, what's wrong with you? You can clearly see that I'm a bloke!!" Followed by a lot of pointing and screaming "transphobe!"

Somehow, though, the AFABs in trousers who otherwise present as femme never get the same consideration as the AMABs in dresses and beards. Why could that be, I wonder?