F*****g pronouns

People have lost their jobs over gender critical beliefs so I can see how it would keep someone awake at night especially if their employer is getting huffy about objecting to pronouns.

Pronouns in emails are so stupid, I got one yesterday for “Amy, she/her” well no shit, seems quite unlikely someone called Amy would go by anything other than she/her whatever their sex.

I did once in an email have to refer to someone called Alex who I didn’t know the sex of, I just used “Alex” throughout and I managed just fine!

Did it matter if you liked your body or not when applying for the job?

Fair enough, I'm outta here. I understand to a point, but of all the things to lie awake at night worrying about...

Just make the tea and answer the phones like a good girl

Yep we are a great place to work very family friendly ....errr why would we provide maternity cover?

Companies left the idea of Mr and Mrs. at the door because it led to expensive HR problems

HR is there to remove conflict and cost not to add to it by forcing compliance on stuff which can lead to direct discrimination

I did not say anything about someone losing their job, being 100% evil or about compromises

I'm confused why you are tagging me in on this?

My moral dilemmas at work have involved nuclear weapons, so you'll excuse me for thinking this may not be quite as important.

Well aren’t you important🤨. And do you think this gender nonsense isn’t pervasive enough to affect your line of work either? No one should be forced to comply with an ideology they don’t believe in, whether they’re responsible for the Red Button or a cleaner at McDonald’s.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c5b12f26-3e70-11ec-9bef-aa3112940013?shareToken=32ea3d7d009d2d99422dcf16dcbda2a0

@Ifeelsuchflutterings Fair enough, but the flip side of that is that no-one can convince me this is really worth losing your job over.

Just don't assume people you disagree with are always 100% evil. I'm sure a sensible compromise can probably be found here.

You should have the option to not declare. Some people may be living differently outside of work than in, an example being someone who has made people aware that they are gay or lesbian or transgender at work but not outside because of possible/likely family reactions. If pronouns are used then it could be viewed outside of work (say if wfh and someone comes past your screen to ask if you want a cuppa).

'Please refer to me by my name' could be one option. You can argue that some people think it is rude to use a personal pronoun and not a person's name.

Absolutely.
Ask them which ones they want you to use.
Then if they say it's up to you, ask how you are supposed to determine which mean what and which are 'yours'.

That's rather like the posters who go on threads about abusive parents and tell them

"My mum died last year and I really miss her I would give anything to be where you are right now" etc

Just because your moral dilemmas involved nuclear weapons doesn't mean no one else can have a moral dilemma without it being dismissed as too small.

My moral dilemmas involved not creating an AI that destroys us. I would still be stirring up trouble if someone told me I had to put Miss/Mrs (as per your example) in my email signature as my marital status (or pronouns for that matter) have no impact on how I do my job.

You don't get to choose where someone else's line in the sand is because yours happens to be somewhere else.

They can’t tell you that you have to use pronouns then tell you the pronouns you pick are wrong 🤣🤣🤣🤣. That’s fucking hilarious.

i would spin it back and ask them which pronouns they would like you to use.

And her employer can pay for that unlawful action.

She followed a stupid instruction to the letter.

If her employer wants to provide a list of acceptable words and a classification of when individuals can use these words to refer to their role the employer is free to write up a detailed policy which is compliant with the UK legislation.

Insisting that an employee follows a belieif system around pronouns is the same as insisting the employee insert a statement being "Saved by Christ for Eternal Salvation" or Doomed to the Fires of Eternal Hell

That's what's commonly known as a dick move, and is excessively petty. You'll destroy any credibility you have doing it.

I agree with this but cheeky neo pronouns isn't the best way to explain things to them - in my opinion

Fair enough, feel free to explain it. I'm just saying don't assume malice or bad faith is behind it.

Just pick a pair of the more ridiculous neo pronouns, and insist HR and everyone else in the office use them for you constantly.

I didn't say that.

What I'm saying is that sometimes it's best not to go in all guns blazing.

My moral dilemmas at work have involved nuclear weapons, so you'll excuse me for thinking this may not be quite as important.

The "people who are 99.9% likely to have good intentions, and who don't understand how or why it's a giant can of worms to some people" need to understand.

So she has to become a lemming?

Yep, lay it on thick.

They started this nonsense.

I identify as Apathetic when asked. When someone is “apathetic,” they’re basically choosing the “don’t know/don’t care” option. It’s not a bad thing or a good thing. It’s that feeling Taylor Swift sang about when she said she forgot that you existed. No concern, no worry, no interest. The IDGAF.

The key thing here is that this is probably being led by a busy and stressed person who has a million and one other things to deal with, but has had it imposed on them from above, and 100% compliance is probably one of their targets. The likelihood of them being a TRA ideologue is absolutely tiny, and they probably view it as morally equivalent to stating Mr/Ms etc.

Just ask yourself whether you really want to die on this hill, and whether it's worth making a big deal out of it to people who are 99.9% likely to have good intentions, and who don't understand how or why it's a giant can of worms to some people.

Workplaces involve a lot of compromises to function smoothly. I'm not a fan of this stuff at all, but I've had far bigger moral and ethical dilemmas to deal with at work than this.

I just spit my tea out!
Absolutely brilliant and I'm stealing this.

My preferred strategy is to decline, either silently or with calm and honest reasoning and hope that some of the reasonable bumblers might think again.

But I'm at an advantageous position by being an experienced teacher in a very shortage subject and they won't want to lose me.

If I wasn't, I'd resist complying (silently) for as long as possible and hope that they simply forget to chase me about it - a strategy that's often worked for me in other matters