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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Chess is a feminist issue.

111 replies

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 14:15

https://twitter.com/mikesalter74/status/1692011020032868405

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-gender-chess-players-lose-titles-biological-birth-jhfdckm0c

'Transgender women will be banned from competing in top-level female chess tournaments while the game’s governing body adjudicates whether they have an unfair advantage.'

https://twitter.com/mikesalter74/status/1692011020032868405

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Tippley · 17/08/2023 20:15

MrSand · 17/08/2023 19:40

Does anyone know if women-only chess competitions are legal under UK law?

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that any man (trans-identifying or not) would have an arguable discrimination claim.

Ridiculous.

UnwieldyRhombus · 17/08/2023 20:11

Snowypeaks · 17/08/2023 19:52

I imagine it's a bit like the world of poker, @UnwieldyRhombus

Oh, poker too? Why are some men so WEIRD about women enjoying the same activities as them? Obligatory 'not all men' - some men are thrilled when you share a hobby with them and can chat about your mutual passion - but so many are gatekeepery at best and downright hostile at worst. No, they're not YOUR manly hobbies for men only, yes women can and do like them too and are not taking anything away from you in doing so. It's been irking me my entire life as a woman who tends towards more 'masculine' pursuits...

LonginesPrime · 17/08/2023 20:03

MrSand · 17/08/2023 19:40

Does anyone know if women-only chess competitions are legal under UK law?

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that any man (trans-identifying or not) would have an arguable discrimination claim.

Why?

How is this different from a female-only shortlist or prize intended to redress the balance in any other male-dominated field?

UnwieldyRhombus · 17/08/2023 20:02

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Snowypeaks · 17/08/2023 19:52

I imagine it's a bit like the world of poker, @UnwieldyRhombus

UnwieldyRhombus · 17/08/2023 19:51

Oh, this thread isn't really about what I thought it was going to be when I clicked, so what I'm saying might not be very relevant, sorry. But I wanted to say it anyway 😅

As a female chess player, there is still a lot of sexism in the game. Some of the male players are just ridiculous when they see a woman (or girl) doing well. Actual temper tantrums and the like.

Some are genuinely welcoming and though, e.g. Magnus Carlsen, who is a good proponent of female participation in chess: www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/21/magnus-carlsen-chess-interview-queens-gambit-beth-harmon-netflix)

Here's a roundtable with some female chess players discussing their experiences in the chess world:

The Experiences Of Women In Chess

IM Anna Rudolf, GM Judit Polgar, WGM Jennifer Shahade, WIM Ayelén Martínez, WIM Fiona Steil-Antoni, Lula Roberts, and FM Alisa Melekhina come together to sit...

https://youtu.be/NFpC17WFNOU

Snowypeaks · 17/08/2023 19:50

MrSand · 17/08/2023 19:40

Does anyone know if women-only chess competitions are legal under UK law?

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that any man (trans-identifying or not) would have an arguable discrimination claim.

Why? FIDE are trying to grow women and girls' participation and see the ring-fenced competitions as a good way to do it, for reasons explained in the tweet thread above.. It is lawful under the EA2010 for events to be organised for groups who share a protected characteristic - sex, in this case.
Men are not being shut out of chess competitions. How are they being unfairly discriminated against?

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 19:44

MrSand · 17/08/2023 19:40

Does anyone know if women-only chess competitions are legal under UK law?

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that any man (trans-identifying or not) would have an arguable discrimination claim.

Call the police!

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DryIce · 17/08/2023 19:40

Mollyollydolly · 17/08/2023 19:01

Ian Dunt blocked me today on twitter because in response to his thread I said he was a fraud and an utter disappointment.
I'm normally fairly polite, but I just saw red when I saw that thread saying the only reason to ban trans women was hatred.
I've bought his books, marched with him over Brexit and he's just such an utter disappointment. Never once has he tweeted about women's sport, swimming, weightlifting, any of it. Lefty men are the worse.
He just cant see why women should be allowed anything for themselves, even in something like chess where women are no under represented.
I actually loathe people like Ian more than I loathe Farage now. How the fuck did that happen??

Lefty men are the worst!! They seem to think progressiveness is just a matter of supporting the smaller group, and calling anyone who disagrees with them a bigot.

And their hidden misogyny comes out when they refuse to recognise there are bloody good reasons women can tell who is a man, and telling them to hide that under the banner of acceptance is at best disingenuous and at worst dangerous

MrSand · 17/08/2023 19:40

Does anyone know if women-only chess competitions are legal under UK law?

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that any man (trans-identifying or not) would have an arguable discrimination claim.

AbraKedavra · 17/08/2023 19:31

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. Women's teams/competitions - key's in the name. Men are not women.

ResisterRex · 17/08/2023 19:16

Also in 2014:

No endgame to sexism in chess, says MP

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2ac4593c-d6eb-4ba0-8a37-d81e6327d6e6?shareToken=f801378b6cf71b53be47d9633f68e578

Mollyollydolly · 17/08/2023 19:16

22 days. Dunt and Eagle, no good for my blood pressure, the very definition of gaslighting.

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 19:13

22 days is a long time in politics. And chess, presumably.

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ResisterRex · 17/08/2023 19:12

Mollyollydolly · 17/08/2023 19:06

Oh and apparently Angela Eagle was a keen chess player in her youth and has tweeted in the past about how misogynistic it is.. make any of it make sense.

So she did...

x.com/angelaeagle/status/1684150147171643394?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Just 22 days ago

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 19:11

“There was a great deal of sexism, some of it unthinking, some of it deliberate, all of which outraged me,” she said. “By the time I stopped playing tournament chess regularly, at 23, there were improvements but still much more to do, not least to ensure that women and girls get their fair share of the resources which are available to nurture UK chess talent. I bet it still hasn’t changed enough.”

Come ON, Angela!

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ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 19:11

Oh.

'Ms Eagle led a strike in the girls’ division of the British Chess Championship in 1976 because they were forced to play in a dark corner of the room on inferior boards that gave her a headache.'

So, she played in the girls' division, but is now protesting its existence?

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ResisterRex · 17/08/2023 19:08

Justme56 · 17/08/2023 18:39

There is no physical advantage in chess. Is Angela admitting that TW have an advantage in other sports? Thought the activist argument was that they didn’t?

Grin
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ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 19:06

Imnobody4 · 17/08/2023 17:44

Angela Eagle never fails to disappoint;

There is no physical advantage in chess unless you believe men are inherently more able to play than women - I spent my chess career being told women’s brains were smaller than men’s & we shouldn’t even be playing - This ban is ridiculous & offensive to women

There was I thinking she supported all women's shortlists. No, sorry my mistake TWAW. Not sure what her argument is.

Presumably she didn't arm wrestle her way into the Shadow Cabinet.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/14/labour-shadow-cabinet-angela-eagle-extra-title-women-row

Angela Eagle's extra title due to Labour 'women row'

Shadow business secretary’s second post as shadow first secretary of state was an afterthought, Labour source confirms

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/14/labour-shadow-cabinet-angela-eagle-extra-title-women-row

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Mollyollydolly · 17/08/2023 19:06

Oh and apparently Angela Eagle was a keen chess player in her youth and has tweeted in the past about how misogynistic it is.. make any of it make sense.

Mollyollydolly · 17/08/2023 19:01

Ian Dunt blocked me today on twitter because in response to his thread I said he was a fraud and an utter disappointment.
I'm normally fairly polite, but I just saw red when I saw that thread saying the only reason to ban trans women was hatred.
I've bought his books, marched with him over Brexit and he's just such an utter disappointment. Never once has he tweeted about women's sport, swimming, weightlifting, any of it. Lefty men are the worse.
He just cant see why women should be allowed anything for themselves, even in something like chess where women are no under represented.
I actually loathe people like Ian more than I loathe Farage now. How the fuck did that happen??

SlowDog · 17/08/2023 18:43

I feel sure that men have no intrinsic advantage in Chess, so one day there may be no need for separate women's competitions.

So far 41 women have reached the level of Grandmaster. Judit Polgar reached the world top 10, and in 2005 was one of 8 players who played in the tournament to determine the world champion.

Women have done arguably even better in Go, which also has many hundreds of professional players and presumably requires similar skills. Choi Jeong was the runner up in the Samsung Fire Cup (one of the most prestigious international tournaments) last year. The reigning British Champion is a woman and two women have won the European championship.

Surely male dominance in these types of strategic board games has been due solely to the fact that there have historically been a much greater number of male players?

Justme56 · 17/08/2023 18:39

There is no physical advantage in chess. Is Angela admitting that TW have an advantage in other sports? Thought the activist argument was that they didn’t?

IhaveanewTVnow · 17/08/2023 18:29

If I was a chess player and younger I would want to learn in a female environment. Chess is so male dominated that I would feel intimidated

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