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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

It took female MPs from both parties to change Starmer’s stance on gender politics

33 replies

IwantToRetire · 15/08/2023 20:19

Private cross-party meetings for politicians worried about the erosion of sex-based rights encouraged the Labour leader to start speaking up at last

... many of us have missed the way this debate has also broken down party boundaries. It has brought together a group of MPs who are in no way like-minded. One of them is Baroness Jenkin. Jenkin and Conservative colleagues found themselves offering a safe space to Labour MPs who were at odds with their party’s policy on gender self-identification.

The most high-profile of these is Rosie Duffield, who has previously said she feels as though she is in an “abusive relationship” with her party – hardly something she would say lightly, given that she also escaped domestic abuse a few years ago. Even though the gender-critical Tories enjoy spending time with Duffield, she is manifestly not one of them: she disagrees vehemently with the two-child benefit limit, for instance, and doesn’t have much truck with the other views of the more strident Tory campaigners such as Miriam Cates. Yet she and other Labour women have ended up confiding in those Conservatives because they have found the atmosphere in their party so hostile for the past few years.

Many of these women regularly join cross-party meetings held in parliament for politicians worried about the erosion of sex-based rights. They were set up two years ago by the three gender-critical campaign groups in the main parties: Labour Women’s Declaration (LWD), Conservatives for Women and Liberal Voice for Women. Initially, they met monthly and over Zoom – more recently their meetings, private and under the Chatham House rule, have gone weekly. They include peers and MPs who gather to hear from experts in sex and gender, transgender people, people who have detransitioned and clinicians.

Everyone involved agrees that the gender-critical movement in politics was slow to get going, and didn’t notice the many changes to policy that ministers, public agencies and other organisations were agreeing to without much public fuss – until it almost seemed too late. In the past couple of years, activists have gone into a frenzy of organising to try to catch up and change party and government policy. As Jenkin says, it was easier in the Conservatives, if only because senior figures, including Sunak, saw the topic as a way of undermining Starmer. But the real prize was Labour party policy, because the debate is still largely happening on the left, not in the Tory party.

This organising paid off at the end of July when the Labour national policy forum met to thrash out the basic direction of the manifesto. One of the decisions it reached, supported by the leader’s office, was that the party would no longer have self-identification as its official policy in relation to Gender Reform Act reform. Many LWD activists are angry that there has been no acknowledgement of or apology to all the women in the party who have been abused for merely holding what is now Labour policy, and other than a brief comment from Wes Streeting, no apology to Duffield or other female MPs for the way they have been treated. However, all agree that they should now be in the position where to say that biological sex matters isn’t treated as heresy within the party. But it is still not a fully comfortable place to be.

This is from a longer article printed in the Observer, as unlikely the Guardian would have published it, but it still has some of the Guardian's usual weasal words. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/13/keir-starmer-gender-politics-labour

I wonder if it is a positive to have this more publicly known. Or will die hard partyist demand loyalty and insist women dont do anything so independent as meeting with other woman with a common cause that cuts through party lines?

(If there is an existing thread on this let me know and I'll get MNHQ to delete. I did search but nothing came up.)

It took female MPs from both parties to change Starmer’s stance on gender politics | Isabel Hardman

Private cross-party meetings for politicians worried about the erosion of sex-based rights encouraged the Labour leader to start speaking up at last

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/13/keir-starmer-gender-politics-labour

OP posts:
Bottal · 15/08/2023 21:42

flyingbuttress43 · 15/08/2023 21:13

Call me cynical but I don't trust a word that Starmer or Labour say on this. He's just seen the way the wind is blowing politically. Either he never believed what he said about transwomen being women, in which case he is now a hypocrite or backpeddling, or he did believe it, in which case he is a coward for not sticking to his belief.

Sorry mate, we see you.

Me too. He's like Boris that way, easily swayed by the direction of public opinion, not trustworthy at all. Flakey, a man without conviction. Power at any cost. Just like Boris. I've always voted Labour but won't be whilst he is leader.

Amethys · 15/08/2023 21:39

Exasperatednow · 15/08/2023 21:33

And you don't think that's what the Conservatives do too?

Yes! The Conservatives are shit too! Pointing out that Starmer has been crap on trans ideology doesn’t mean we have to be fans of the Conservatives, who are clearly clutching at straws to distract from the way they’ve beggared the country.

All of the political parties are in appalling state at the moment, partly because media scrutiny and online harassment has got so out of hand that very few good people want to do the job.

I wish JK Rowling was Prime Minister 😭

MrsOvertonsWindow · 15/08/2023 21:39

It's good to see women organising on a cross party basis.
Sadly I think Starmer can't be trusted over this. It's only the overwhelming bad press that every new revelation brings that's made him make a few mealy mouthed concessions.
Fortunately "Operation Let Them Speak" is going swimmingly with every day demonstrating just how dangerous and anti democratic trans extremism is to the population at large. He will - just as Sturgeon was - eventually be forced to either defend the unacceptable or to finally speak out as a responsible politician should.
We all need to work together.

Amethys · 15/08/2023 21:36

flyingbuttress43 · 15/08/2023 21:13

Call me cynical but I don't trust a word that Starmer or Labour say on this. He's just seen the way the wind is blowing politically. Either he never believed what he said about transwomen being women, in which case he is now a hypocrite or backpeddling, or he did believe it, in which case he is a coward for not sticking to his belief.

Sorry mate, we see you.

Totally agree @flyingbuttress43 . I’m so disappointed in Starmer. When I heard a QC was leader of the opposition I was excited and hoped it hailed a return to competent politicians instead of dodgy ex-journalists. Sadly not.

Problem with Starmer is he’s a leader who doesn’t lead. Labour should have ripped the Tories to shreds over the creep of trans fanaticism into schools prisons and hospitals, that all happened with the Tories in charge. But Starmer has no convictions, no courage, no “I believe this and I’m going to persuade you I’m right.” Just mumble mumble a woman has a penis mumble Labour will protect single sex spaces but mumble Labour will also define transwomen as being part of the female sex.”

Whatever, Starmer. You are out of time. Labour desperately needs a new leader, a proper one with actual charisma and convictions, like Tony Blair.

Exasperatednow · 15/08/2023 21:33

flyingbuttress43 · 15/08/2023 21:13

Call me cynical but I don't trust a word that Starmer or Labour say on this. He's just seen the way the wind is blowing politically. Either he never believed what he said about transwomen being women, in which case he is now a hypocrite or backpeddling, or he did believe it, in which case he is a coward for not sticking to his belief.

Sorry mate, we see you.

And you don't think that's what the Conservatives do too?

rogdmum · 15/08/2023 21:30

I think it’s positive to have this known. I’ve spoken at two of these meetings and they’ve been invaluable for giving people a voice where we’ve struggled to be heard elsewhere. Baroness Jenkin has been amazing bringing politicians together.

flyingbuttress43 · 15/08/2023 21:13

Call me cynical but I don't trust a word that Starmer or Labour say on this. He's just seen the way the wind is blowing politically. Either he never believed what he said about transwomen being women, in which case he is now a hypocrite or backpeddling, or he did believe it, in which case he is a coward for not sticking to his belief.

Sorry mate, we see you.

Aaron95 · 15/08/2023 20:35

No it didn't. It took an opinion poll. Starmer isn't doing anything he believes in. He is avoiding any possible controversial topic until after the election. He is a shoe in to be the next prime minister unless he gets embroiled in some sort of controversy.

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