‘Gender-neutral’ lavatories are an invasion of women’s privacy - Kemi Badenoch

Sure but the analysis is quite nuanced and concludes that all needs can and should be met.

Ultimately if Stonewall citations correlate with gender neutral, then I think we have evidence for identity people to use gender neutral as they don't want single sex toilets.

No need at all for men with an identity to use women's.

Their community has spoken.

Do the % matter if the outcome was still to say single sex toilets must be provided?

Although I take the pp about existing buildings

How profoundly depressing <sigh>

The problem Harriet, is plenty of women also really do not care, they can't see the issue or it's never negatively impacted them.

I always used to think it was only men who were so deeply downright selfish, or at best, oblivious to ramifications. But there are plenty of women as well. Just none who post here.

@ACatCalledPushka
Biological realist - I like that term. Thanks

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence

The results and analysis are here.

Its quite clear that the Stonewall responses were all about keeping non binary people safe in non gendered toilets.

It seems similar to the original public consultation on Gender Self Id. If women's groups had not forced their voice and their view into the process, en mass,e only TRA invested organisations would have been consulted, In fact, that was the general idea, wsn't it?

I conducted my own survey in Wetherspoons. The sample size was 4. A male member of staff was cleaning the female toilets. All 4 of us were queued to use the disabled rather than change our tampons in a cubicle with a male stood outside. What is the source of your survey please?

Precisely. Those sort of "women".

Let me guess...the same women who don't mind gender neutral toilets have no issues with men on top of the podium, gender neutral sports as well?

Stonewall UK’s LGBT in Britain – Trans Report (2018), was cited in 11,866 responses (67% of all responses). The next most cited report or piece of research, with 115 citations, was a 2013 report by UCLA’s School of Law Williams Institute titled Gendered Restrooms and Minority Stress. 23 responses cited a 2019 report by the Royal Society for Public Health titled Taking the P* which highlighted the health impacts of limiting public toilet provision.

So in fact it's mostly trans people that want non gendered toilets and cited Stonewall.

Fascinating. So we can meet the Stonewall non gendered toilets request and women's sex segregated toilets and there's no need for men to use women's toilets at all.

Good result.

Looks like the respondents were heavily weighted along TRA lines. It is inconceiveable that Joanne Public would suggest she'd prefer mixed sex toilets in public places.

"For example, the analysis could be read as suggesting that only 2% of respondents were supportive of disabled persons’ toilets. We do not, however, believe that if we had asked specifically if people supported disabled persons’ toilets being provided, only 2% of respondents would have said, ‘Yes’. We consider it more likely to be the case that people simply did not choose to comment on disabled persons’ toilets in their responses on the presumption that disabled persons’ toilets would continue to be provided – as is currently the case."

Which it's highly possible many also thought about single sex toilets. Including many of the trans people, who don't necessarily want all toilets to be mixed sex, they want to use the opposite sex ones.

"The same logic applies to all the headline percentages throughout this analysis. It should be noted that respondents choosing to comment on certain issues or toilet types mentioned in the call for evidence does not necessarily indicate a lack of support for those issues or toilet types they did not comment on."

It's not a survey. It's a summary of the consultation responses, interpreted by the government.

It's a government consultation carried out by Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government.

That is a highly questionable survey. What is the source of it?

I'm a frequent visitor to Rome, but Italy more generally - and I have never seen gender neutral toilets. Sometimes in a small establishment there will just be one toilet - in a fully enclosed room with basin, for use by all - as you get in many establishments all over.

If I had a survey which asked me if I wanted non-gendered toilets I might be confused, cos what I want is single sex toilets not gendered toilets. Cos I don't want my toilets gendered, I want my toilets sexed!

From the report:

"The example of disabled persons’ toilets is most stark and cannot be interpreted as only 2% of respondents believing disabled persons’ toilets should be provided.

The same logic should be applied to all these numbers, which should be taken in the context of the call for evidence. For each line below, this is the number and percentage of people who, when given free choice of what to comment on, chose to indicate their support for these toilet types."

Who is your MP?

That's an odd question. Have you asked all over Europe to find out how they feel about it to establish that it's "without complaint".

There's 760 million people in 50 countries. How are you gathering the information about "without complaint" for that many people in so many languages?

I am sure we will be fascinated with the research that indicates "without complaint".

Or does AFAIK mean you can just say it and it's true?

donnawinters · Today 12:55
Gender neutral toilets are all over continental Europe without complaint AFAIK.

Just not true.

That’s lucky otherwise disabled people wouldn’t have their own loos

‘The example of disabled persons’ toilets is most stark and cannot be interpreted as only 2% of respondents believing disabled persons’ toilets should be provided.’

@donnawinters do you think only 2% of the population is in favour of disabled toilets, or could it be that this specific consultation was not answered by a representative sample of the population due to not having been widely promoted? I don't remember having the opportunity to participate. Apparently 2 thirds of respondents cited some Stonewall report, so it looks like it was heavily promoted by trans groups.

I've never seen on in France, and I go there regularly. Where have you seen them and how do you know there are no complaints or other issues?