‘Gender-neutral’ lavatories are an invasion of women’s privacy - Kemi Badenoch

Reading stuff into things here.

Nah, just if you want to think that

Rosie 😁

Ah the old NAMLT/NATWALT trope wheeled out again.

How do we tell the difference between those who have bad motives and those who don't? If you know and can reliably do so what a boon that would be to crime prevention, no need for any checks could just call you and you could give the definitive answer - are you Layla Moran and can see into people's souls?

It is not all about safety it is privacy and dignity too, why are women not entitled to this most basic of considerations?

Folk/folks/folx...just more wantin post modern trashing of language.

Yes, we're all one human race, one set of folks, so to speak.

But at the sharp end/the boundaries/the necessary seperateness/...it's not folks anymore, it's men and women.

Folks used to understand this. Folks used to self police. Folks used to understand categories matter.

Folks don't seem to get this anymore.

I have a very close, long standing male friend who is gay. He absolutely identifies with women. He really does has empathy for the female situation. He wouldn't dream of imposing himself into women's spaces - certainly not when uninvited.

And the 'folk' refernces have the opposite of the cosy effect that their now commonplace use is intended to convey.

It is not about males necessarily being a direct 'physical threat, as you must know, but about the dignity and privacy of sex. Being free from the male gaze - the gaze that is born out of the very differences of sex. The same sort of feelings of dignity that you are claiming for males who 'identify as' women.

A bit more identifying with, rather than as - would go a long way to establishing empathy and respect.

I've come across men who are presenting as women in a variety of situations ( how would i know if they identify as a woman?) - and the feeling is always one of difference - they are clearly male, and the very presence of that 'otherness' causes a degree of discomfort in certain types of situation.

We have single sex spaces in certain situations so that women can feel comfortable and have some dignity and privacy.

This poster is more concerned about wee on the seat than safety and privacy in public places, on the basis that heterosexual couples may only have one loo at home.

Alright to assume a trans woman is automatically a threat but not ok to say ‘folk’ ‘people’ etc.

Yada yada...not all men are paedophiles, stalkers, flashers.
Some women are domestic abusers, sadists, complicit with dangerous men.

There goes the 'folk' again......its insidious.

You don't say!

If you have a preference for gender neutral toilets in public places then you really should campaign for the provision of them - but you have no right to campaign to remove the current provisions for women and girls - most of whom are best served by single sex facilities - and who would actively choose them over mixed sex.

I suggest it is more a case of a lack of fellow feeling/empathy and imagination from you.

Cubicles in a mixed sex block or corridor do not alleviate the discomfort felt - especially in the night time. economy.

No RealityFan I don't, the attitude and behaviour is a feature not a bug which is why it needs to be made explicit that female toilets are for females only and it should be made an offence to violate that with both the violator and the premises being liable. The only way to stop this is to be draconian.

Does anyone really think that self policing and the interests of women will be out first, even with seperate toilets being provided?

The cat's out of the bag, and after a decade of (im)polite society fawning over these individuals, they will not give up their gatecrashing proclivities.

They believe they're women, ergo will use Kemi's new women's toilets.

Actually, separate cubicles is the answer you just showed us is the correct one - ie not some his and hers collective and not private situation

If we are going to mimic your non His and Her home set up then the cubicles need to be fully enclosed, have a toilet, sink, dryer (or hand towels which will require a bin to put them in after use) and a sanitary bin. This will (1) take up more space and (2) be more expensive. They will also require more regular cleaning, they will need to be situated in an easily viewable and accessible area - not down a dark dank corridor out of view. There are rules on the numbers of toilets required per the number of people who will use them so places will do the bare minimum due to space and expense if they have to provide fully enclosed units, you can surely work out what that will mean.

All this could be easily avoided if males whatever they think they are just stayed the fuck out of women's spaces, if they had the basic decency and respect not to violate the boundaries of women. The only reason this is now an issue is down to MRAs/TRAs, selfish entitled males and Stonewall, they are entirely responsible for this mess.

Thanks for new consultation. It seems more aimed at building reg people than general public and is technical

If anyone else fills it out are you saying yes to T1?

It looks ok to me but might be good to share views first

Also because consultations seem to get flooded by TRAs skewing the results

I've been following this for years and I was very confused by the term "non-gendered toilets".

These civil servants need to stop this "gendered" smokescreen bollocks and talk about "mixed-sex". The legislation relates to sex - not gender. This is deliberate, ideologically driven and deceitful.

The new consultation:

Open consultation: 13 Aug - 8 Oct 2023
Toilet provision in buildings other than dwellings: technical consultation
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/toilet-provision-in-buildings-other-than-dwellings-technical-consultation

Look at these lovely notices that management has had put up in a pub after they changed the sign on The Ladies to "Cubicles" and the sign on one of The Gents toilets to "Urinals" (there is no cubicle in that one, just urinals).

Just in! New definition of "Women": "those who can't use urinals".

The "private space" in the second notice must refer to the cubicles because the main door is now permanently wedged open, so anyone passing by can see right through into a cubicle if the cubicle door is open. Presumably now wedged open so that anyone passing by can see if a woman is being attacked in there.

The other toilet that was the second Gents has urinals plus one cubicle; you have to walk past the urinals to get to the cubicle. The door on the cubicle doesn't lock and the main door doesn't lock. It just says "Toilet" on the main door and that door opens straight on to the urinals. So although it is theoretically "mixed sex" it is not used by women.

So now the men have three set of toilets and in what was The Ladies they have been pissing in full view with the cubicle doors open and/or wandering out of the cubicles with their dicks on display. Of course they fucking have.

I remain to be convinced that any "non-binary" female would genuinely "feel safer" in either of the mixed-sex facilities now available, rather than in what was The Ladies.

Do non-binary females really breathe a sigh of relief when they enter and see strange men pissing and wandering around with their cocks hanging out?

The only people who benefit are men, males. All men but particularly perverts.

I am sick to death of selfish, virtue-signalling women like the manager of that pub, women who are prepared to subject other women to the indignity and trauma of being closeted with dirty, stinking perverts.

We need a new rating system for establishments like that - it gets P3

• Pronouns in she/her's bio
• Progress flag on the wall
• Perverts in the toilets

Transwomen are not interested in any sort of compromise. It’s women’s spaces or bust.

Maybe we should follow sports example - have female public toilets and an open category for males or women who find the womens toilets offensive.

So a queue for sep cubicles is different? Only in respect that men might also have to queue. In life we currently only queue separately for the loo. Some good equality then.

Actually, separate cubicles is the answer you just showed us is the correct one - ie not some his and hers collective and not private situation

If you look at the consultation data and analysis under discussion on the thread, non binary people have said they want gender neutral toilets for their own safety.

Erm no and that’s why I didn’t by any stretch of the imagination say that. Do women squat in a line and wee in a gully? Men at urinals do equivalent. It is practically medieval and many blokes never use them