‘Gender-neutral’ lavatories are an invasion of women’s privacy - Kemi Badenoch

It's a straightforward, incontrovertible fact that trans women can legally use the women's loos and trans men, the men's, and have done for years, and this does not change that.

Any man can "legally" use the women's loos. Decent men and "trans women" do not.

Yes. For the moment. Unless a group state otherwise. And we know from the LGB Alliance conference that some male people will ignore that and not respect an organisation who has did just that.

However, we also know there are males with trans identities who DO respect female needs and find alternatives.

But please do keep on dadjoke because it really does help readers to see male people telling women all about what trans people’s needs and how they should be prioritised over women’s needs.

The landscape has changed quite drastically now, though. The only way forward is the obvious third spaces.

Itv would appear that most trans identified people would be more than happy with 'gender neutral' facilities. This needs to be campaigned for as a practical solution to the problem. Some new venues alreay have such a third facility - thereby meeting everyone's needs for dignity and privacy.

It's a straightforward, incontrovertible fact that trans women can legally use the women's loos and trans men, the men's, and have done for years, and this does not change that.

I hear you. I encourage it though. Because it just adds to the showing readers how misogynistic the arguments supporting these males accessing female spaces really are.

It shows readers that this is driven by male people. And once people see it, they cannot unsee it. Because then they look behind all the arguments and see the truth.

I mean, any woman knows that women are regularly using hand driers to dry their clothes after rinsing stains. That is just the start of the list.

It is a great privilege to have never had to use the toilets for anything other than urination and defecating. Yet it never ever occurs to a male person to ask questions. Because why would it ?

If they are male then they have no chance in telling us about our right to dignity and privacy

A male that doesn’t care about women to that extent - well I’m not sure why we have to hear it on the feminism board on mn

It always remarkable to see male people telling women what they need by way of toilets.

They come up with great things like ‘you all have gender neutral toilets in your houses’ and telling women what they do in the toilets like ‘just pee peacefully’. Not realising that women and girls do so much more than ‘just pee’. Yet they feel they can lecture and shame women and girls into accepting male people in our toilets.

It has everything to do with a particular sex of people who are male who should not be using male toilets. Gender Neutral toilets have been insisted on as a solution but they have come at the expense of female single sex spaces not in addition.

Ah Dadjoke another boring day so you’ve come to be annoying again

as usual you’re taking crap - it is perfectly legal to segregate toilets by sex

Are you male?

There is no legitimate and proportionate reason to exclude them,

Yes there is in fact there are several.

Transgender people will continue to be able to use the loo associated with their gender.

Toilets are divided by sex not gender.

This issue has not impact on transgender rights except in the way it is framed.

There is no legitimate and proportionate reason to exclude them, and no provider even attempts to do so. Transgender people will continue to be able to use the loo associated with their gender.

You could do it if you used a shewee but my small experience with one left me with a wet hand and leg from leakage.

Men cannot become women.

It's really simple. It's science fact. It's common sense. It's the truth.

Indeed it's a fact that all toddlers, the middle aged and OAPs can agree on.

Incontrovertible, from time immemorial to the present day.

It just is.

And now this home truth is being subverted. And because the home truth is so truthful, the only way to attempt this subversion is to subvert everything.

Language. Science. History. Art. Politics. Ethics. Evolutionary instincts. Civilisational mores.

And by subverting everything, we subvert ourselves.

Eddie Izzard can dine out on a four decades old story that teenage girls trod on his human rights arguing with him in their loo.

Sportsmen allowed to rub women's noses in it...powerlifting, swimming, cycling

GCs can be cancelled and sacked with impunity...Maya, Allison, Jo, Glinner.

Women can be bullied and threatened with zero blow back from cultural elites...JKR, Posie, Riley.

Politicians are happy to put men in women's prisons...Sturgeon, Trudeau, Biden.

All, ALL because the trope "men can become women" was never challenged by the liberal elites.

The most anti scientific, antithetical statement was allowed to stand, be absorbed, and be reinforced in the culture.

It's not so much a Trojan Horse, as battering ram in bad make up and frilly frock, or most accurately, an iron fist in a velvet glove.

The moment "men can become women" was allowed to stand, and not stamped on by every politician, scientist, writer, ethicist, sociologist, psychotherapist, doctor, journalist...ironically as the self same groups don't allow Rachel Dolezal to "be" black and Elizabeth Warren to "be" Native American/Two Spirits...then the rot not only set in, but was encouraged to spread.

Well, I just tried and I call complete bollocks on women standing to pee. Either some posters have no fucking idea what women do in the toilet or…. Actually no other alternative comes to mind.

And what do women and girls standing to pee do with their clothing?

Do they need to have exceptional pelvic floor muscles to empty their bladder so they don’t get infections?

So many questions!! I am so looking forward to finding out.

I would love to know the mechanics of how this works. Because this sounds amazing !!!

Imagine if we all can master this, WE could use urinals! How quick we would be ! We could just pop in, stand and pee and the lines would go. The cubicles would be for all the other needs we have but the lines would go!!

Either Superior knows something that I don’t OR is had no fucking idea about female toileting habits.

So please inform us how this is done superior. I am keen to go and try it.

It is quite amazing to see the lengths some posters go to when women and girls wanting single sex toilets come up.

And really? Which men are not using urinals? Because I never see any line up for the male toilets yet we are told men are not using urinals. Some very bizarre claims on this thread.

And the seriously lazy ‘you have gender neutral toilets at home’ got brought out too. Brilliant. Can you tell us superior M when was the last time you opened your house to the public and had a stream of strangers using your toilet please? If you don’t do this on an everyday basis you are using an argument you obviously thought was highly intelligent from the internet but never actually thought about. It is such a false equivalence unless your home toilet is listed as a public toilet free for all to use.

I do not believe that the claim that any female stands to pee in a public loo is WORIADS.

Can @SuperiorM explain which female people are standing to pee?

Who are these women and girls? How the fuck does that even work?

Is that right that 'sex' in these regulations will mean 'biological sex'? I haven't seen that - I only saw 'sex' without qualification.

Without qualification or further clarification, presumably that means sex as per the Equality Act guidance on separate and single-sex services. As we all know, the exact meaning of that is under discussion.

Hmm, says a person who likely believes that language is actual violence, and misgendering is unacceptable.

Furthermore, it is an Americanism..

The impression that something creates is not an act of will. It tends to be an effect of the wider context.