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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are we in the minority now?

57 replies

EarthSight · 12/08/2023 22:26

At first, people kept talking about the arts as a particular problematic industry when it came to having to go along with political group think, and with having to declare pronouns, but now it's everywhere. The charity sector, community work, healthcare, tech, construction, sustainability, government, local authorities, construction, and it goes on. I'd say the majority of professionals I see online on social networking channels have pronouns in their bio. I'd say 70%, possibly more in some industries.

It's mainly the associated implications that bother me, the feeling you have to watch your back, the sense of being policed and having to be very, very careful in the working environment (and outside of it actually). From listening to true believers of the gender faith, I think they would be quite glad if their workplace seemed an unwelcoming place to a gender critical prospective employee, even if that employee was very pleasant to be around and kept to themselves. The fact that you don't believe the same things they do, inside your own head, is enough of a workplace issue for them.

Is there a industry this that hasn't been been affected by all of this in a widespread way?

OP posts:
MsRosley · 13/08/2023 23:15

Thelonelygiraffe · 13/08/2023 09:23

Try being in publishing 🙄

Shitshow, innit.

EldenRing4 · 13/08/2023 15:18

Rudderneck · 13/08/2023 14:45

What is a drag queen brunch? Do you all dress up, or are there drag queen guests?

They're conducted by drag queens! With performances etc.
I find it very unprofessional, overly sexualised representations of women don't belong in the workplace.

RealityFan · 13/08/2023 15:14

Come the revolution (Kemi suitably attired on a sturdy steed), people won't even remember they wore these preposterous badges.

Right now, those pushing for full scale invasion of Iraq in 2003 have selective amnesia, more and more Brexiters do, and it'll be the same with this lot.

It'll be like it never happened to them, and we'll be sitting around saying that it absolutely did.

AnnaMagnani · 13/08/2023 15:10

I'm in Healthcare. Everyone I have spoken to about it is GC.

The organisation has pushed pronouns signatures on emails.

I know one person who has done it and she is very sweet, would be desperate to include and help patients and I can guarantee has not given it any further thought than that.

Circumferences · 13/08/2023 14:54

No we're not in the minority.

Fair enough, I'm a SAHM so not receiving loads of work emails- but in my opinion, whenever I subtly chat to other local mums, neighbours, friends, (mostly people 30+ in age) absolutely no one goes along with gender ideology. People are lovely and polite of course, but no one is a true believer.

If I knew loads of university students I expect I'd have a different outlook. I just really really hope young people today wake up and grow out of this nonsense.

CampervanKween · 13/08/2023 14:50

It's really not common in the law. I rarely see pronouns in email signatures. Everyone at my firm is very much reality based, we have lots of conversations about it.

My son's at Bristol University doing science. He's GC and says he's not encountered any blue haired nutcases as he calls them. Thankfully science based people seem pretty sensible and in touch with reality.

Rudderneck · 13/08/2023 14:45

EldenRing4 · 13/08/2023 13:25

I work for a large firm that has 'drag queen brunch' (boak!)
The pronoun people are always the ones doing very little work and spending more time running around seeing how they can get their face in front of execs for frivolous things..also creating unnecessary paperwork and process.
The moment I see one in an email signature I know they'll be useless at solving any issues encountered.

What is a drag queen brunch? Do you all dress up, or are there drag queen guests?

Rudderneck · 13/08/2023 14:44

I'm in libraries, in Canada, the majority have pronouns in their signatures. Though in the system I'm in right now, the proportion is a little less. I suspect it's because our head librarian is an older man and doesn't push edi stuff generally. It's not that he comes out as opposed, he's a guy on a very even keel who keeps politics out of things. Old school librarian really.

Some of the younger librarians, especially the women, are super into it though. They see librarians as being a social justice vehicle and safe space. When we get asked about training, they always want more edi. (As an aside, it boggles me that they enjoy this, the training is always so condescending and useless.) I'm really hoping he doesn't retire before some of this stuff begins to wane.

Among the lower level staff, you don't see signatures at all much so it's not clear who buys in, but I would say that it's more evenly divided among the skeptics and believers. That seems to go for the women and the men, though the latter are a real minority.

One thing I've noticed is of the people who do buy into it all, about 95% actually know little or nothing about it. They totally accept the narrative that it is all well established medically, people are really born in the wrong body, and so on. The remaining few are people who see themselves as non-binary, or recent university grads. Still believe it all but know the ideology is way more complex.

HPFA · 13/08/2023 14:09

In my workplace it's left up to us - no-one pressured to have pronouns in bio - a couple do but most don't.

I wouldn't be very public about GC views as I actually find it useful to listen to what people are saying on the topic.

EldenRing4 · 13/08/2023 13:25

I work for a large firm that has 'drag queen brunch' (boak!)
The pronoun people are always the ones doing very little work and spending more time running around seeing how they can get their face in front of execs for frivolous things..also creating unnecessary paperwork and process.
The moment I see one in an email signature I know they'll be useless at solving any issues encountered.

AutumnCrow · 13/08/2023 13:22

EDI has infiltrated widely, OP, not belief in the actual gender ideology. Far from it.

And EDI is a scam, a grift, that is now being rooted out, thank god.

TheDogthatDug · 13/08/2023 13:20

I work for the NHS and my organisation encouraged us to use pronouns in our emails, I can think of only one person that did. All my colleagues are GC and no one who I have spoken to IRL believes TWAW/TMAM, no one.

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 13/08/2023 11:18

I’m in a science based industry and there are very few pronouns in signatures, less than 5% I’d say. Certainly none in my immediate team and reporting structure.

Sometimes they are helpful if they are in the signatures of international colleagues where it’s not clear if they’re men’s or women’s names. But I’ve also corresponded with international colleagues not knowing if they’re a man or woman and I’ve realised it makes no difference anyway to the work.

WhiteFire · 13/08/2023 11:07

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/08/2023 10:58

This! I always quietly cheer when i
see an nhs signature with no pronouns in it because I know how much this stuff is shovelled at them and pushed hard

Maybe I need to reframe my thoughts and instead of eye rolling at those that do, give an inward cheer for those that don't.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/08/2023 10:58

Musomama1 · 13/08/2023 09:09

My take is that it's a minority of those within captured industries that are pushing pronouns and the like and having a big effect on policy.

Whereas the majority working at these institutions either don't actually agree with the sentiment or haven't really thought about it much.

This! I always quietly cheer when i
see an nhs signature with no pronouns in it because I know how much this stuff is shovelled at them and pushed hard

Moanthensmum · 13/08/2023 10:50

Goodviibrations · 13/08/2023 10:45

Was at the Edinburgh Festival. You'd think it was the hub of lgbtqiawtfery+ (what with it also being wildly middle-class, coincidentally), but I was happy to overhear some Gen Z students mock the whole thing by wondering where the ladyboys of Bangkok would fit into the acronym, saying the L and B were already taken, and also asking what the other letters even stood for and why it keeps getting stupidly longer. Got the impression they wanted nothing to do with any of the woo and found it all very cringe.

I actually wondered that too about the lady boys of Bangkok! I saw them years ago and wondered about this recently as they are very good at looking like women and that's their whole MO yet they never say they actually "are" real women! So it shows up a bit this new belief system.

Goodviibrations · 13/08/2023 10:45

Was at the Edinburgh Festival. You'd think it was the hub of lgbtqiawtfery+ (what with it also being wildly middle-class, coincidentally), but I was happy to overhear some Gen Z students mock the whole thing by wondering where the ladyboys of Bangkok would fit into the acronym, saying the L and B were already taken, and also asking what the other letters even stood for and why it keeps getting stupidly longer. Got the impression they wanted nothing to do with any of the woo and found it all very cringe.

AthenaWhite · 13/08/2023 09:35

ThereIbledit · 12/08/2023 23:55

In my workplace 6 of the 8 of us in my team are GC. We daren't speak openly because of the 8th person.

This is replicated across the land.

Mwnci123 · 13/08/2023 09:34

Very few pronouns in bios at my employer, and much confusion and GC-leaning discussion when someone in the open plan office receives an email with pronouns. I also have friends who put pronouns in either work email or social media profiles, but I know from speaking with them (and their ongoing willingness to be friends with me!) that they're actually fairly/ very sceptical about it all.

IScreamAtMichaelangelos · 13/08/2023 09:33

It's everywhere in my industry. So few of us haven't followed it that we've essentially flagged ourselves as Terfs. For me, this is fine.

Thelonelygiraffe · 13/08/2023 09:23

Try being in publishing 🙄

GrandMarnierChocolate · 13/08/2023 09:20

Every time I go on a Zoom call lately (not work) I'm heartened to see that very few have pronouns in sigs. I remember during the lockdowns that over half did (including myself for a very brief period as I didn't have the arguments to go against the push)

FlippinFumin · 13/08/2023 09:18

Company I work for has about 300 employees. No pronouns. I must receive a couple of hundred emails a day across all sectors, perhaps once a month I will see pronouns in their signature. I honestly think this shit is not as common as we are led to believe. Also, ten women in my office, all GC, not one who believes TWAW. We can speak out loud, and often do. I honestly feel so bad for any sensible women who have to put up and shut up at work. Frightening really.

Musomama1 · 13/08/2023 09:09

My take is that it's a minority of those within captured industries that are pushing pronouns and the like and having a big effect on policy.

Whereas the majority working at these institutions either don't actually agree with the sentiment or haven't really thought about it much.

Tabasco007 · 13/08/2023 06:46

EarthSight · 12/08/2023 22:26

At first, people kept talking about the arts as a particular problematic industry when it came to having to go along with political group think, and with having to declare pronouns, but now it's everywhere. The charity sector, community work, healthcare, tech, construction, sustainability, government, local authorities, construction, and it goes on. I'd say the majority of professionals I see online on social networking channels have pronouns in their bio. I'd say 70%, possibly more in some industries.

It's mainly the associated implications that bother me, the feeling you have to watch your back, the sense of being policed and having to be very, very careful in the working environment (and outside of it actually). From listening to true believers of the gender faith, I think they would be quite glad if their workplace seemed an unwelcoming place to a gender critical prospective employee, even if that employee was very pleasant to be around and kept to themselves. The fact that you don't believe the same things they do, inside your own head, is enough of a workplace issue for them.

Is there a industry this that hasn't been been affected by all of this in a widespread way?

Yes, my industry, office full of blokes 23 years - 40, I'm in my 50s and a cervix haver :o), not one of them thinks that a women has a penis, they all think the whole thing is nuts! They don't go on about it, but they let me have my daily 15 min rant! I also very subtlety bring it up with clients too... in an unambiguous way to see peoples response, most that have picked up on my leading comments, roll their eyes and make a comment back that let's me know they likely think like me.... some I'll even have in depth chats with about it. I'm very lucky, as I don't think I could bare to work somewhere I had to keep quiet and go along with it. I really sympathise with all of you that do. Hopefully it'll be easier to speak up, now that the sport side of it had come up a bit in the mainstream media, and the mainstream media are reporting on it more, here's hoping!