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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
OP posts:
cheezncrackers · 09/08/2023 19:56

So does Starmer still believe that some women have penises?

SunnyEgg · 09/08/2023 19:48

It comes down to the legal situation

Fuming TRAs doesn’t mean we have single sex spaces back

It comes down to making sex mean biological sex in the EA

fromorbit · 09/08/2023 19:46

PriOn1 · 09/08/2023 19:16

As I said before, huge because self-ID is the flagship demand, the hill transactivists are willing to die on and anything less than complete removal of all medical gatekeeping is treated as treason.

Self-ID is their line in the sand. I suspect any step back from it, however small, will be greeted with narcissistic rage-style reactions.

It’s not that Labour has taken a particularly big step, per se, but I suspect they’re about to experience the same backlash many moderate women received when they naively suggested third spaces or other reasonable compromises, to be greeted with hyperbolic accusations of bigotry and rape threats.

Labour party members were surrounded at Pride. They’ve supported transactivism to the hilt, but now they’re no longer welcome. It will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

But I disagree that it’s over. The realisation that banks are closing accounts because people have expressed “the wrong political views” is the latest sign of just how deep this goes.

If you look at the TRA reactions online or in Pink News most of them are fuming.

They will be campaigning against Starmer and will over time help push him more in our direction. Not the battle is over the war is somewhere in the middle. Labour Women's Declaration now have a huge advantage as they can speak openly within Labour. Any debates they have a huge chance of winning.

DrBlackbird · 09/08/2023 19:21

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 09/08/2023 12:33

Rubbish

while there’s such a thing as legal sex which can differ from, yanno, actual sex, it’s not over

Unfortunately, another agreement with this view. IMO, still very much a concern. Even more so as the recently converted youth graduate and move into positions of authority in organisations esp in HR, EDI etc. and think they know it all about being kind and inclusive (happily excluding women).

PriOn1 · 09/08/2023 19:16

SunnyEgg · 09/08/2023 12:48

Why huge if it’s just £5 and a Dr appointment to gain access to single sex spaces as a legal female?

As I said before, huge because self-ID is the flagship demand, the hill transactivists are willing to die on and anything less than complete removal of all medical gatekeeping is treated as treason.

Self-ID is their line in the sand. I suspect any step back from it, however small, will be greeted with narcissistic rage-style reactions.

It’s not that Labour has taken a particularly big step, per se, but I suspect they’re about to experience the same backlash many moderate women received when they naively suggested third spaces or other reasonable compromises, to be greeted with hyperbolic accusations of bigotry and rape threats.

Labour party members were surrounded at Pride. They’ve supported transactivism to the hilt, but now they’re no longer welcome. It will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

But I disagree that it’s over. The realisation that banks are closing accounts because people have expressed “the wrong political views” is the latest sign of just how deep this goes.

RealityFan · 09/08/2023 16:36

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 09/08/2023 16:33

The war is over….and the Occupation is just beginning.

Fingers crossed for the Resistance.

VE Day?

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 09/08/2023 16:33

The war is over….and the Occupation is just beginning.

Fingers crossed for the Resistance.

Baldieheid · 09/08/2023 16:27

Metaphorically speaking, I must add. I've no intention of letting loose with my scalding cauldron.

Baldieheid · 09/08/2023 16:26

Complacency got us here. The complacent still bleat about be kind and oh I don't mind.

Let's not make the same mistake again.

To war.

Boiledbeetle · 09/08/2023 16:10

But Labour has signaled the beginning of a serious democratic conversation, after years of implicitly agreeing with the LGBTQ activists who insisted that <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.li/o/Nsdbc/mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/trans-rights-are-not-up-for-debate/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">no debate was acceptable.

As a leader of a left-wing party, Starmer has sent an important sign by disassociating himself from the radical postmodern idea that the distinction between males and females is a <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.li/o/Nsdbc/www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2023/07/the-gender-binary-debate-jacqueline-rose" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">social construct, and that biology has nothing to do with women’s historical oppression.

Hmmmmm, yeah, I'll wait a while longer I think before actually believing Labour. I want to see hard proof and not soundbites personally.

nepeta · 09/08/2023 15:41

Floisme · 09/08/2023 14:58

I can only access the first few lines but they read as pretty cautious to me. Does Lewis actually say it's over or is it a case of someone else writing the headline?

I don't think we should underestimate the progress we've made. I agree it's not clear yet whether Labour are really turning their back on self ID but I think it's still very significant that they're now shying away from promoting it.

But even if I totally agreed with the premise, the post war work would only just be beginning: clearing up the mess, rebuilding our institutions, holding the people who got us into this to account and figuring out how to avoid it ever happening again..

The headlines are usually not something the author of an article has any control over. They are hooks, to catch the interest of readers, so often more extreme than the piece itself.

Froodwithatowel · 09/08/2023 15:37

The 'polarity' however is between:

excluding women to permit freedom of their spaces to male people including rapists, particularly excluding particular minority groups of women OR -actual impartial equality and inclusion for all

rejecting, excluding and subjecting homosexual people to conversion bullying to be 'inclusive' (with their body) of opposite sex people OR - actual impartial inclusion and tolerance of homosexuality.

Permitting exemption in safeguarding practice, including exemptions to the direct advantage of almost entirely benefit male people including many with evidence of concerning history OR - actual impartial safeguarding of children.

Fiction, feelings creating reality, gaslighting, the subjectivity of one or the few forcibly imposed on all OR - impartial objective reality and evidence for all.

Rights based on who you are, how old you are, how you vote and how you identify OR - impartial and equal rights that work for all irrespective of age, colour, creed, vote.

A fast one has been pulled on the general public that has included a lot of equality sounding waffle, a lot of LGB history and waffle, a lot of appropriating and using systems, and it has all relied on people being taken in by the marketing.

It will fall apart. It's taking an appalling amount of time and major questions will eventually need to be asked in depth on how this safeguarding disaster was able to happen, particularly to government and taxpayer funded establishment posts such as NHS, police, education, civil service, LAs. But all women need to do is stand and continue to be the voice of sense and of actual grown ups and wait. It's falling apart weekly, more and more people are seeing through the marketing, and the general public are getting sick of the ranting and scolding, awful behaviour, and obvious difficulties with reality and tolerance.

Apollo441 · 09/08/2023 15:13

It's over when the toxic concept of 'legal' sex is binned. How such insanity arose will be a wonder to future generations.

maltravers · 09/08/2023 15:09

I fear some leftie men have been enjoying the malicious misogyny/self righteous back patting combination a bit too much just to let it go. We’re going to have to be tenacious, it would be a mistake to think “job done” at this stage, in my view.

ArabeIIaScott · 09/08/2023 15:09

I really wish this headline was true.

Backstreets · 09/08/2023 15:00

I wish. But hey. No retreat, baby, no surrender.

Floisme · 09/08/2023 14:58

I can only access the first few lines but they read as pretty cautious to me. Does Lewis actually say it's over or is it a case of someone else writing the headline?

I don't think we should underestimate the progress we've made. I agree it's not clear yet whether Labour are really turning their back on self ID but I think it's still very significant that they're now shying away from promoting it.

But even if I totally agreed with the premise, the post war work would only just be beginning: clearing up the mess, rebuilding our institutions, holding the people who got us into this to account and figuring out how to avoid it ever happening again..

Beamur · 09/08/2023 14:56

Someone on Twitter said that what we now observe is the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end
I suspect this may be true. I think that the stealth steamroller is over - and it has been extremely successful. Institutional and youth capture has been widespread.
Doesn't mean this is the new world order though as the downsides and casualties start to become apparent.
What happens next though? Influence can be hard to wrestle back, or it can happen really easily. Political leverage can swing. Labour have woken up to this issue not being as straightforward as they thought and a potential vote loser. Hence the radical shift in very recent times. Reconciliation between the polarities of opinion isn't going to happen though.

Moonberri · 09/08/2023 14:42

Kier is a flip flop. He'll say anything if it gets him more votes. It wasn't long ago he said that it's completely wrong to say that "only women have cervixes" with a look of complete disgust on his face.

nepeta · 09/08/2023 14:37

The institutional capture means that this is not at all over, and in some countries it is barely beginning. Someone on Twitter said that what we now observe is the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end.

But I do think that the beginning of the attempted takeover and erasure of the female sex in the West is probably over as now it is possibly to at least occasionally argue about the issues.

I can't help noticing the simultaneous linguistic erasure of women in the West and the real erasure of women from the public sphere in Afghanistan, with the total removal of all agency from women there.

I am not arguing for any causal relationship between the two, but I do believe that the relative lack of attention to the plight of Afghan women and girls among Western feminist organisations is linked to their focus on the needs to erase women at home, to benefit a group they view as more deserving of rights than just boring bog standard women.

Froodwithatowel · 09/08/2023 14:27

The Labour Party identifies as the gender war being over.

Evidence? Reality? Get thee behind me bigot.

SayingwhatIreallythink · 09/08/2023 14:26

Labour is only against self-ID while Starmer is in charge. None of his likely successors are against self ID

IWillNoLie · 09/08/2023 14:26

Not until the GRA is repealed.

JellySaurus · 09/08/2023 14:25

Baldieheid · 09/08/2023 12:51

I disagree, sadly. Pandora's box has been opened and I suspect I'll be fighting this crap on one front or another for the rest of my life. It's misogyny on steroids and I can't see it going anywhere now the ones right at the far back of the trail can actually taste the children.....

And this.

JellySaurus · 09/08/2023 14:24

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 09/08/2023 12:33

Rubbish

while there’s such a thing as legal sex which can differ from, yanno, actual sex, it’s not over

This.