Page 5 | Transman loses baby during hysterectomy

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 2023-08-09T08:44:31+00:00

Transgender patient loses unborn baby while undergoing hysterectomy while four months pregnant [[https://mol.im/a/12387829 https://mol.im/a/12387829]] This article is horrifying. In my experience women are always given pregnancy tests before surgery, what the hell happened here?

Flickersy · 09/08/2023 13:11

Fuckingfuming1 · 09/08/2023 13:08

Absolute bullshit and an insult to the medical professionals who carried on to the exact standards they would’ve under normal circumstances just under 10 times more pressure.

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Not bullshit at all. Mistakes get made under pressure and when consultations are done remotely. We've seen this all over the world during covid. Additionally the hospital has now changed its policy to make pregnancy tests mandatory for these kinds of surgery, so they clearly recognise there was a weakness in their system.

Titfortat78 · 09/08/2023 13:10

Well how else were they supposed to have sex? They live as a man just that they still have they're lady part's not a penis.

Fuckingfuming1 · 09/08/2023 13:10

pontipinemum · 09/08/2023 13:05

I am actually very shocked the hospital didn't do a test and glad that they have changed their policy.

I lived in Australia for a while in a rural back water. I had to go to hospital once because the GP was away, even though I had a chest infection they did a pregnancy test on me! So I am really surprised that one isn't done as standard before a hysterectomy!!

The only reason it wouldn’t be is if you lie on your medical questionnaire and say you’re a man. But you aren’t….

Fuckingfuming1 · 09/08/2023 13:09

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 09/08/2023 13:07

I think in earlier planning discussions it was agreed that a pregnancy test would be required and she chose a blood test and then in the immediate preparations the nurse taking the blood ran through a checklist to see what tests should be run and when you checked the 'this is a man' box a pregnancy test wasn't required.

If I'm understanding correctly the questions asked have been reworked to try to avoid such problems in future. Sex matters in healthcare.

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This has happened because a person ticked the wrong sex box on their medical questionnaire.

porridgeisbae · 09/08/2023 13:09

Wow. :(
Yes they always ask if you're pregnant before they do anything- and they do a test. Maybe they wanted to and refused it, but they usually insist. I'm not sexually active for the moment and haven't been for years, but they still insist on it.

Fuckingfuming1 · 09/08/2023 13:08

Flickersy · 09/08/2023 09:58

So it happened in lockdown, when consultations etc were done remotely and healthcare services were generally under pressure.

The surgery was rushed and booked in for only 10 days after the consultation.

The patient was assured a pregnancy test would be done but this didn't happen.

They were asked a series of questions to determine if pregnancy was a possibility, but still no test was done.

I don't think this has anything to do with the patients trans status, I think this is a hospital cock-up.

Absolute bullshit and an insult to the medical professionals who carried on to the exact standards they would’ve under normal circumstances just under 10 times more pressure.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 09/08/2023 13:07

Nevermay · 09/08/2023 09:46

"he" was obviously "she" in bed then, wasn't she? And how would she NOT KNOW pregnancy was a possibility after sex?

I think in earlier planning discussions it was agreed that a pregnancy test would be required and she chose a blood test and then in the immediate preparations the nurse taking the blood ran through a checklist to see what tests should be run and when you checked the 'this is a man' box a pregnancy test wasn't required.

If I'm understanding correctly the questions asked have been reworked to try to avoid such problems in future. Sex matters in healthcare.

pontipinemum · 09/08/2023 13:05

I am actually very shocked the hospital didn't do a test and glad that they have changed their policy.

I lived in Australia for a while in a rural back water. I had to go to hospital once because the GP was away, even though I had a chest infection they did a pregnancy test on me! So I am really surprised that one isn't done as standard before a hysterectomy!!

MeridianB · 09/08/2023 13:04

You mean 'woman loses baby ...' as it is clearly only women who can get pregnant.

Yes, please get the thread name changed.

If the hospital failed do a pregnancy test on a woman of childbearing age for any reason before this op then shame on them.

readbooksdrinktea · 09/08/2023 13:02

Ofcourseshecan · 09/08/2023 13:00

The hospital may have made a mistake, but the patient should have done a pregnancy test herself. It is very foolish to hand over all responsibility to others, when it’s so easy to do a simple and necessary thing.

It’s a pity professionals are not allowed to take into account that an adult woman trying to change sex may have mental-health issues that require extra care.

But since I'm in it, this. Absolutely this.

readbooksdrinktea · 09/08/2023 13:01

In an email from the hospital, Mr Pohlner was told that depending on his last period or if he was sexually active that he may require a pregnancy test.

How is this an actual, serious sentence? I want off this mad timeline.

Ofcourseshecan · 09/08/2023 13:00

The hospital may have made a mistake, but the patient should have done a pregnancy test herself. It is very foolish to hand over all responsibility to others, when it’s so easy to do a simple and necessary thing.

It’s a pity professionals are not allowed to take into account that an adult woman trying to change sex may have mental-health issues that require extra care.

JenniferBarkley · 09/08/2023 12:57

Folkevermore · 09/08/2023 11:07

It is extremely sad, I'm glad they have now changed their policy to say every woman is tested as standard. Without knowing the answers given to the questions I don't think it's fair to judge the nurse though.

Certainly not fair to judge the patient. I don't believe any of us would believe it possible that a hospital would perform a hysterectomy on us at four months pregnant.

NotBadConsidering · 09/08/2023 12:57

DysonSpheres · 09/08/2023 12:52

They're working with what they've got I suppose. I certainly am not an advocate for bodily mutilation in name of so-called gender authenticity.

Since the hospital messed up here, and it wasn't necessarily the patients fault or related to their trans status, it seems a bit unfair to keep this thread running.

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But it’s reasonable to consider that the patient’s trans status altered the answers to the questions and/or the interpretation of the answers. There must be something to consider when a Women’s hospital doing an operation unique to women surrounded medical staff who deal with women’s health problems and pregnancy care all day, everyday didn’t do a pregnancy test.

Dinopawus · 09/08/2023 12:56

@DrLightman exactly. And why it is quite possible that they may not have given the correct answers to the pregnancy screening.

However it is not unusual for patients to give inaccurate history. They may have forgotten, be concealing domestic abuse or simply saying what they think will get them the surgery they want. I am wholly in agreement that a check test would have been wise.

I'm inclined to think that people - meaning HCP and the patient - were probably guilty of seeing trans first and biology second.

Datun · 09/08/2023 12:56

CouldNotResist · 09/08/2023 12:52

Horrendous on many levels. Would the transman have chosen to continue the pregnancy had they known they were pregnant? They lost that choice. Would they have opted for an abortion and returned at a later date for the hysterectomy? They lost that choice. Would the surgical team assembled for the hysterectomy not have palpated the area or used ultrasound at any point before making the first incision (evidently not?) It must have been horrific for them embarking upon the procedure and then realising there was a baby in the womb.

All round an absolute disaster.

A pregnancy test would have been so simple to do.

I saw a young transman on Instagram the other day. They had a child. Looking back through their account it became evident that a gender clinic in Edinburgh had prescribed them Testosterone after a few consultations (they were very early twenties possibly late teens and had travelled up from the south of England). They then discovered they were already pregnant when they started on Testosterone and chose to stop and have the baby.

I was aghast at the possibility that they hadn’t done a pregnancy test or asked the right questions of this obviously sexually active young female before prescribing them Testosterone. Maybe they were too early in their pregnancy to test positive I don’t know. Either way I thought it negligent. I looked up the clinic and the Dr they named as being ‘brilliant’ - they have seemingly retired overseas now.

The transman has gone on to have top surgery and seemingly advises other would-be ‘seahorse Dads’ on pregnancy, birth and parenting.

Freddie McConnell, who is not only a journalist, but also a politically motivated transactivist, campaigning to have them self registered as the father, rather than the mother they were, apparently was entirely unaware that a double mastectomy would mean they wouldn't be able to breastfeed their baby.

It came as a shock when their baby was born.

DysonSpheres · 09/08/2023 12:54

CouldNotResist · 09/08/2023 12:52

Horrendous on many levels. Would the transman have chosen to continue the pregnancy had they known they were pregnant? They lost that choice. Would they have opted for an abortion and returned at a later date for the hysterectomy? They lost that choice. Would the surgical team assembled for the hysterectomy not have palpated the area or used ultrasound at any point before making the first incision (evidently not?) It must have been horrific for them embarking upon the procedure and then realising there was a baby in the womb.

All round an absolute disaster.

A pregnancy test would have been so simple to do.

I saw a young transman on Instagram the other day. They had a child. Looking back through their account it became evident that a gender clinic in Edinburgh had prescribed them Testosterone after a few consultations (they were very early twenties possibly late teens and had travelled up from the south of England). They then discovered they were already pregnant when they started on Testosterone and chose to stop and have the baby.

I was aghast at the possibility that they hadn’t done a pregnancy test or asked the right questions of this obviously sexually active young female before prescribing them Testosterone. Maybe they were too early in their pregnancy to test positive I don’t know. Either way I thought it negligent. I looked up the clinic and the Dr they named as being ‘brilliant’ - they have seemingly retired overseas now.

The transman has gone on to have top surgery and seemingly advises other would-be ‘seahorse Dads’ on pregnancy, birth and parenting.

Bloody hell!

Datun · 09/08/2023 12:52

Ifeelsuchflutterings · 09/08/2023 12:48

But I thought one of the tenents of GC was that you can't change sex and another was to use language correctly.

Therefore its far more appropriate to call an operation to remove a uterus a hysterectomy than a sex change operation

I don't think we should change the name of medical procedures depending on the reasons for having them. I guess calling it an elective hysterectomy would be appropriate though

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No we shouldn't change the names of operations, or anatomy, or any of it. And many women have been saying this for ages.

Whilst simultaneously health services all over the shop are changing the names of things to obscure sex. Pregnant people.

Like a woman lying about being raped, because the man who raped her wasn't a man.

It doesn't get more obscure than that.

DysonSpheres · 09/08/2023 12:52

DrLightman · 09/08/2023 12:48

So they were having PIV intercourse in the last 4 months at least, how is that living as a man? Unless they were raped, which of course would be horrific (but there is no mention of this in the article, not that everything has to be in there)

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They're working with what they've got I suppose. I certainly am not an advocate for bodily mutilation in name of so-called gender authenticity.

Since the hospital messed up here, and it wasn't necessarily the patients fault or related to their trans status, it seems a bit unfair to keep this thread running.

CouldNotResist · 09/08/2023 12:52

Horrendous on many levels. Would the transman have chosen to continue the pregnancy had they known they were pregnant? They lost that choice. Would they have opted for an abortion and returned at a later date for the hysterectomy? They lost that choice. Would the surgical team assembled for the hysterectomy not have palpated the area or used ultrasound at any point before making the first incision (evidently not?) It must have been horrific for them embarking upon the procedure and then realising there was a baby in the womb.

All round an absolute disaster.

A pregnancy test would have been so simple to do.

I saw a young transman on Instagram the other day. They had a child. Looking back through their account it became evident that a gender clinic in Edinburgh had prescribed them Testosterone after a few consultations (they were very early twenties possibly late teens and had travelled up from the south of England). They then discovered they were already pregnant when they started on Testosterone and chose to stop and have the baby.

I was aghast at the possibility that they hadn’t done a pregnancy test or asked the right questions of this obviously sexually active young female before prescribing them Testosterone. Maybe they were too early in their pregnancy to test positive I don’t know. Either way I thought it negligent. I looked up the clinic and the Dr they named as being ‘brilliant’ - they have seemingly retired overseas now.

The transman has gone on to have top surgery and seemingly advises other would-be ‘seahorse Dads’ on pregnancy, birth and parenting.

Dragonwindow · 09/08/2023 12:50

Hospital cock-up. This is why they do hcg tests routinely. My widowed, menopausal mum had to do a test at the age of 54 before starting chemo, because it had been less than 12 months since her last period.

DrLightman · 09/08/2023 12:49

DaisyChayne · 09/08/2023 12:41

They didn't necessarily have unprotected sex.

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but they did have sex,...

Grammarnut · 09/08/2023 12:48

Blinkinbloodyhayfever · 09/08/2023 09:54

He should have taken responsibility and done a pregnancy test himself. The mind boggles, quite honestly.

She, you mean. Men do not get pregnant.

DrLightman · 09/08/2023 12:48

Dinopawus · 09/08/2023 10:19

To add, in order to be accepted for surgery, individuals usually have live as the gender they wish to acquire for a period of time and complete psychological assessment. Requirements vary between countries and providers.

Inevitably, there is information online about how to "pass" psychological assessments. This can lead to those wanting surgery giving rehearsed answers instead of answering truthfully.

Bottom line? Don't lie to HCP to get what you think you want.
And definitely don't then complain if it turns out that what you said you wanted and lied to get, doesn't live up to expectations.

So they were having PIV intercourse in the last 4 months at least, how is that living as a man? Unless they were raped, which of course would be horrific (but there is no mention of this in the article, not that everything has to be in there)

Chersfrozenface · 09/08/2023 12:48

YetAnotherSpartacus · 09/08/2023 12:41

Mr Pohlner was told the hysterectomy would have been required regardless of the pregnancy because the placenta was growing into his C-section scar.

This was also stated in the article.

That only became evident after the procedure had been started.

Transition was the reason for booking in for the procedure.