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Original poster

Is being trans heritable? Article in Psychology Today suggests it is

36 replies

IwantToRetire · 08/08/2023 17:45

... It is also important to note that throughout history, and in nearly all cultures, some people have adopted gender-atypical states, such as men (XY) behaving like the cultural stereotypes of women, and women (XX) behaving like the cultural stereotypes of men. It is important to emphasize here that gender-atypical states (or gender nonconformity) are not synonymous with gender dysphoria, as not all gender-atypical states result in distress or dysphoria.

... The scientific fact that gender preference is genetically heritable has either been ignored, disregarded, or politically misconstrued. Certainly, gender preference, to some extent, can be influenced by one’s culture and even popular social media, as attested by the increasing numbers of people over the past decade who identify as transgender.

However, the latter influence does not negate the scientific evidence for the heritability of gender preference. There is a firm consensus that intelligence is a highly heritable trait, and approximately 40 percent to 50 percent of its variability is attributed to genetic influences.

Note that this does not mean that there is a single gene or single gene location for intelligence, as multiple genes (a condition known as polygenic) contribute to one’s intelligence. It is interesting to note that gender preference has been shown to be more genetically heritable than intelligence and polygenic, as one twin study found gender preference up to 62 percent heritable.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/how-to-think-like-a-neandertal/202308/an-introduction-to-gender-sex-and-sexual-preference

I have no idea how influentila Psychology Today is, but came across this by accident, and wonder what they are trying to say. Or why.

Also note that the article says it is the 2nd of 3 and cant find 1 or 2.

An Introduction to Gender, Sex, and Sexual Preference

Part 2: The heritable nature of gender.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/how-to-think-like-a-neandertal/202308/an-introduction-to-gender-sex-and-sexual-preference

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Original poster
IwantToRetire · 09/08/2023 16:39

There is a short reference list which includes a couple of his own papers.

Thanks for digging that out.

And going back to my reference to the abortion research that keeps being used, in fact this was one of the early criticism of that paper.

But maybe this "research" is less likely to be quoted in the publication is not itself given much weight.

OP posts:
Codlingmoths · 09/08/2023 15:07

bluebeardswife7 · 08/08/2023 21:58

"The heritable nature of sex" HmmConfusedGrin

Quite! Do you think they extrapolated all of this from the single factual premise that babies receive X and sometimes Y chromosomes from their parents?

nepeta · 09/08/2023 14:54

It is difficult to distinguish between environmental/social and biological determinants of something when people who are genetically closely related (such as twins) are also brought up together in the same family.

Psychology Today is not the most reliable of sites, at least based on something unrelated to this topic I once studied there. It's not a peer reviewed academic publication, but closer to the way newspapers or magazines might cover the issues. It has also in the past given column space to some rather iffy theories and arguments, so I'd take this with a big scoop of salt.

Musomama1 · 09/08/2023 13:45

I believe you can inherit behaviours etc from relatives, I certainly have, so why not?

Doesn't change your actual sex. You can inherit mental illness for example.

SinnerBoy · 09/08/2023 12:25

Thanks, OldCrone - your researching skills are superior to mine. Just imagine, referencing your own output to support your own output.

Zodfa · 09/08/2023 10:59

The thing about being pro-trans in our society is discovering you can tell a massive obvious lie and get away with it. All subsequent claims from such people must therefore be treated with added caution.

RoyalCorgi · 09/08/2023 09:44

All sorts of traits, both desirable and undesirable, are heritable. Schizophrenia is heritable, for example.

Obviously the problem with saying that a trans identity is heritable is that you have to define trans, and this is much harder to pin down. Is there a workable definition of trans that includes, for example, both Isla Bryson and a 14-year old girl who wants to cut off her breasts because she hates her developing body?

Basildeleaf · 09/08/2023 07:37

Neurodiversity is heritable. Neurodiverse people are more likely to identify as trans due to a sense of not fitting in. See autistic girls who frequently do not fit into gender stereotypes - the make up a large percentage of f to m trans.

OldCrone · 09/08/2023 07:32

SinnerBoy · 09/08/2023 00:14

As far as I can tell, it's a (poorly written) opinion piece, not backed up by any references. It's not peer reviewed and shouldn't have been represented as anything other than an opinion piece.

There is a short reference list which includes a couple of his own papers. He's obviously been looking for evidence of the heritability of gender dysphoria for a long time. This one is from 2002

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1019724712983

The Heritability of Gender Identity Disorder in a Child and Adolescent Twin Sample - Behavior Genetics

The heritability and prevalence of the gender identity disorder (GID) was examined, as well as its comorbidity with separation anxiety and depression, in a nonretrospective study of child and adolescent twins. The parents of 314 twins (ages 4–17 years;...

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1019724712983

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 09/08/2023 00:40

Slight side track but I am still getting to grips with realising research isn't what it says on the tin!

But in fact research is often a construct to confirm an existing belief. (There was another thread about research into abortion in the US that from the beginning had been queried as to its validity, but still years later was being quoted in court cases.)

In fact a well known women's group that still exists was given funding by a funder to get research to prove that funding women's groups was worthwhile because it led to women taking up local council services. (Dont ask). And the researcher agreed to do it because it was at a time that securing your position in a university was linked to how much cash (sorry "funding") you could bring into your department.

This research is still used and quoted.

OP posts:
Original poster
IwantToRetire · 09/08/2023 00:34

Igneococcus · 08/08/2023 18:43

If it were, it would be even stupider for TRAs to demand sterilizing kids before they can procreate.

Star
OP posts:
PickAChew · 09/08/2023 00:19

Well, it's not like a transwoman is ever going to give birth to someone who will.also become a transwoman.

SinnerBoy · 09/08/2023 00:14

As far as I can tell, it's a (poorly written) opinion piece, not backed up by any references. It's not peer reviewed and shouldn't have been represented as anything other than an opinion piece.

Toadsnotfrogs · 08/08/2023 23:14

lorrylau · 08/08/2023 19:04

It's just another stupid article written to justify and normalise male to female transgender and transsexuals and their desire to do and go wherever they want.

This. With bells on.

BrunchBunch · 08/08/2023 23:08

That's the point - those other traits can and have been measured in the way that heritability usually is (which is not to say that it's unproblematic!). But what I think is more likely is that there are various personality traits that are heritable and some of those might be associated with people who present as trans. This could then create a situation where someone could mistakenly conclude that being trans was heritable, when that wouldn't have been what the data actually showed. I don't know if that was the case here - I'm just speculating about how and why a possible heritable aspect might have been apparent, in the same way that propensities to other things that you would not think are specifically genetic (eg. Having a religious faith). The actual specifics of how those personality traits, abilities etc play out (which religion, language, way of rebelling, personality, addiction, way of expressing creativity or whatever) would likely depend hugely on environment

RedToothBrush · 08/08/2023 22:39

BrunchBunch · 08/08/2023 22:33

I think there is evidence of a degree of heritability in religious faith - not in the specific faith, which is obviously determined by environment - but in the ability to have a faith at all. Other traits - e.g., additiction - are also quite heritable, but the specific addiction varies. Or language ability, but the language changes. Or degree of conformity/rebellion. etc. So I can certainly imagine that there are various aspects of personality that are heritable that make people more likely to develop a trans feeling. But I think that is different from saying that being trans is in itself heritable.

How do you separate nature from nurture on this?

I find it hard to believe there are thousands of trans kids separated and living away from their trans parents...

BrunchBunch · 08/08/2023 22:33

I think there is evidence of a degree of heritability in religious faith - not in the specific faith, which is obviously determined by environment - but in the ability to have a faith at all. Other traits - e.g., additiction - are also quite heritable, but the specific addiction varies. Or language ability, but the language changes. Or degree of conformity/rebellion. etc. So I can certainly imagine that there are various aspects of personality that are heritable that make people more likely to develop a trans feeling. But I think that is different from saying that being trans is in itself heritable.

RedToothBrush · 08/08/2023 22:24

What I REALLY want to know is how they've found enough participants for the study with adult children who are past the age where they might desist... Of both sexes too given demographic profiles.

Or could we have an issue with kids trying to please Daddy and getting his attention their whole lives (thinking here of the trans widow thread and the common observation of fathers who are exceptionally self centred, focus on being trans above all else to the emotional and financial detriment of the rest of their family and gaslight their family and make them walk on eggshells).

Where are all the females who are trans with adult age offspring for this study? I hope they were fully included.

RedToothBrush · 08/08/2023 22:18

SquirrelSoShiny · 08/08/2023 19:35

Neurodiversity is highly inheritance and it's probably the biggest co-morbidity with trans identification, especially autism. So in that sense it's likely inheritable but they're not making that very obvious connection. Idiots.

Colloration is not causation as the saying goes.

And if trans ideology is akin to a religious belief you are brought up in, can we talk about the 'heritability' of religious faith too please?

Whoever wrote this load of bollocks isn't very good at scientific practice and eliminating bias and outside factors now are they? It's all the credibility of a chocolate fireguard with a safety certificate.

senua · 08/08/2023 22:10

as one twin study found gender preference up to 62 percent heritable.
Is the whole thing based on one study? Knowing these things, it was probably a study of only a handful of pairs of twins which they have wildly extrapolated.

bluebeardswife7 · 08/08/2023 22:00

I would assume gender is nurture rather than nature

bluebeardswife7 · 08/08/2023 21:58

"The heritable nature of sex" HmmConfusedGrin

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 08/08/2023 20:11

This would assume that 'trans' is one homogenous group though.

I was just coming back to make a similar comment and then want to stop thinking about this article as really all it does it take you round in circles.

The article says:

the term transgender denotes a person whose gender identity differs from their sex at birth.

Are they really trying to suggest you inherit this, even when earlier they said that gender is a social construct and varies in different communities. So somehow trans is not ony inheritable but also able to react to the range of cultures that create their own gender norms.

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BabylonianChild · 08/08/2023 19:54

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Froodwithatowel · 08/08/2023 19:52

This would assume that 'trans' is one homogenous group though.

The difference between middle aged male transitioners for example compared to distressed teen girls with Autism and/or trauma is obviously considerable, as are the factors driving those transitions.

Always the flailing around trying to justify a desired end point conclusion.

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