Woman denied cancer treatment for "transphobic" views and discharged from future care

Why though? Why change the word to another minority group?

I said I wouldn't want to see a Trump flag. Apparently you missed that.

Ah ok so being offensive to trans is ok! Have views by all means but really? She’s being treated for bc and she acts a twat over a flag?!

I think Trump hates Trans too. And same sex relationships, and Mexicans. You might like a Trump flag?

In a fucking doctor's office. I don't want to see a Trump flag either. In the US:

Doctors are prohibited from refusing treatment only if their decision is based on some form of illegal discrimination. These discriminations include age, gender, sexual orientation, race, nationality, or religion.

It was a fucking flag. Change the word ‘trans’ for another minority group and see how vile and inappropriate she was.

Just bloody no need for it.

Yes. FWIW I rarely talk (and definitely don't argue) about racism not because I don't care or believe about it, but exactly because I think my role is to listen.

I've always taken exactly the perspective you gave...that people who experience racism experience it as pervasively and structurally as women experience sexism, and people who don't experience it miss it happening as blindly as men (and frankly, a lot of women) miss sexism, especially the ingrained, cultural, "no word for water" stuff. And I also recognise that as a product of my culture, I'm not free of the ingrained cultural stuff. All I can do is try consciously to recognise it and reject it.

I don't think I am one of the women you were thinking of - at least I hope not.

I'm not sure @FlirtsWithRhinos
If you don't experience racism yourself but feel qualified to argue with those that do about it then yes.

We all know how frustrating it is when men draw false equiviliancies with their experiences about sexism and then double down on it if people who actually experience sexism respond. White people often do the same thing with race. Given that 82% of the population is white compared with around 50% male can you understand why it's exhausting for black women to hear?

@NewNameNigel

What I don't understand is why people who don't experience racism feel that they are in a position to argue about this with black women. I wonder if white women who do this believe us to be liars or unable to understand our own experience in the world.

Am I one of these women? If so, can I answer that?

Firstly, I'm still not sure what "nefarious" thing I'm being accused of. I believe differently to you, yes. But "nefarious"?

Secondly and more importantly, I can't see how your last sentence follows from the previous. Am I supposed to ignore the suffering and opression of other women if they don't happen to be close enough socially or culturally to me? Am I supposed to ignore the suffering and oppression of women who are socially or culturally close to me because other women have it worse? Should we not notice that we have certain types of experiences and indeed oppressions in common because there are also differences?

You are clear about what you think should not be done, but what should be done instead?

@MillicentBystandr I think that unless you experience racism as well as sexism it is difficult to grasp how completly different they are.

What I don't understand is why people who don't experience racism feel that they are in a position to argue about this with black women. I wonder if white women who do this believe us to be liars or unable to understand our own experience in the world.

In short it's a wholesale misrepresentation of history. Women as a sex-based class have never been given a break, not even a single iota of anything resembling a break. To this very day they can very much be considered second class citizens. I can't see anything / anyone in the thread disputing that. However it does an enormous amount of damage to specific groups of women to paint the struggles of women as a 'collective' fight in which we're all in together.

No one is shrugging off anything.
Don’t compare the incomparable is all I am saying.

Why do people always talk about slavery like it was a thing of the past? There are more slaves now than ever before.

Something like 12 million Africans were enslaved over more than 400 years with the transatlantic slave trade. I read the other day that there's nearly 8 million in India alone today!

And sadly African countries are some of the worst offenders nowadays.

@MillicentBystandr

There is a fundamental difference between rape as a crime occurring as a sort of lottery random strike on free women living their lives and rape as a state sanctioned, legalised part of a slave breeding program that is done to all women of a certain race.

Without in any way mimising what was done to Black women under slavery, or indeed to Black people under slavery, I think you are wrong to characterise other rapes as "a sort of lottery random strike on free women living their lives".

There are "free" women who live in fear of their husbands, "free" women who have been trafficked for sex, "free" women who are raped as a weapon of war, "free" women married young with little agency to men who rape them.

These rapes may not be part of a slave breeding program, which is undeniably abhorrent, but they are part of the apparatus by which men dominate women all over the world and they should not be shrugged off.

Absolutely yes. I don't ever deny that race matters.

Whatever is still being done to women, it is still not comparable to the slavery of Black people in the Americas.

Not as a sort of competition, but due to fundamental differences that are hard for many white people to grasp.

So, taking your example of rape as an atrocity that women face.

There is a fundamental difference between rape as a crime occurring as a sort of lottery random strike on free women living their lives and rape as a state sanctioned, legalised part of a slave breeding program that is done to all women of a certain race.

Then when you consider the fact that slavery itself was much much more than legalised and socially encouraged rape…

There is no comparison.

"Effective immediately, you are discharged from receiving medical care at the Richmond Family Medicine Clinic. This action is being taken because of ongoing disrespectful and hurtful remarks about our LGBTQ community and staff," the message said.

I was willing to believe she was dropped for being generally rude & unco-operative, but that message is unequivocal.

I could also have referred to FGM, or to sex trafficking. All atrocities where the victims are entirely or predominantly female.

Predominantly women of colour. I think it's important to acknowledge that race plays at part as well as sex.

I did wonder :-)

If you are accusing me of having nefarious reasons, please say it clearly so I can either clarify a misunderstanding or refute a false assumption.

No. Indeed, any attempts to connect them is usually done by and large for very nefarious reasons.

Really? You don't think the oppression of women globally is connected? I think it's all connected, all linked by the reality of our female bodies and how those are constructed as lesser, as property.

It really does come to something when a feminist wheels out issues concerning women predominantly in the global south in an apparent attempt to counter the very simple notion of why attempts to compare and contrast slavery or indeed racism is just patently meaningless. The formation of such neural pathways is as irritating as it is intriguing. Reminds me of their shtick vis a vis their 'fight' to bring equality and equity to women via access to work and the vote, all very "we're the daughters of the witches you couldn't burn."

which ones are you referring to that I did “choose to call out”?

Confederate states slavery and the Holocaust, in your post of 17:56

What atrocity against female people

The links I shared refered to the worldwide indicence of rape and to the "missing women" phenomenon of there being many fewer women worldwide than the natural balance. I could also have referred to FGM, or to sex trafficking. All atrocities where the victims are entirely or predominantly female.

To be clear, this is not to minimise or lessen the atrocities you highlighted. I simply think it's important to highlight the scale of what has been and still is done to women is comparable despite not typically being recognised as an atrocity in the same league.

“But I do not apologise for pointing out that this atrocity against female people bears just as much significance, as much human waste and tragedy, as the ones you did choose to call out.”

Sorry come again? What atrocity against female people and which ones are you referring to that I did “choose to call out”? Can you be a bit more specific as to what exactly you are comparing?