Irish politician who supported the GRA now discovers he's expected to learn about 58 genders, he's not happy!

I'm watching the amount of energy going into standing his ground. Those of us with mortgages have zero chance of speaking up.

Hehe.
He better be careful, Dail privilege cuts both ways in the TRA debate
If the good Senator decided to call him a thundering disgrace or a little wanker while reading a tweet into the record
🤷

Won't happen but it would be funny to see the headlines and leo having to apply hate legislation to both sides🤪

I see Comerford, scourge of the wrongthinker, came for him. Like most people, getting TRAd just seems to have made it clearer that he's dealing with aggressive fruitloops.

They cant, can they
Because Ireland is 'different' with a culture of single sex schools, long running child sex abuse cases, openly gay politicians (the "PM" leo ), and a male so violent the State tried to Section for VAW before putting in a Womans Prison.

Cant claim they dont know as first male is part of the Dail record (2019 child abuse and child sexual assault). Not sure if the second one was BK or the drunk but it is there.
BK made the news on arrest then the Garda circular made the news on bail and then Child Protection was busy sending out "super-injunctions" under the childrens act.
Add in a teacher with supporting cast who hammed it up in Court

The Irish question is not "what is a woman : rather "what makes a male rapist woman enough to be sent to a womans prison"

This is such a reverse ferret. In 2017 he wanted to co-sign a bill that would have allowed gender recognition of under 16's and would have recognised non binary identities in Irish law

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2017/43/?tab=debates
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/2017-05-10/15/

"I note that Senator Gerard P. Craughwell was unable to be here today. He was deeply disappointed that he was unable to co-sign the Bill"

Heres him giving a speech in 2018 in celebration of 100 years of womens suffrage and taking the time to give himself a bualadh bos for being involved in the gender recognition bill

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/2018-03-07/speech/179/

"As I look around this room, I wonder where my male colleagues are. There are not too many of them here. It reminds me of the day we introduced the Gender Recognition Bill. They literally climbed over one another to get out of the room before the discussion started. Clearly, there are some things men are not supposed to be involved in."

He only seems to have cottoned on that biological sex and gender are seen as equivalences during the incitement to hatred debates this summer, I mean its literally in the GRA that changing gender means you've "changed" sex. I don't know how someone could be so gung ho about a Bill and have no clue of its contents

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/2023-06-21/speech/108/
"The definition of gender in this Bill also, very oddly, equates biological sex with gender when these two terms are often understood to mean two separate things. In the view of many people, J.K. Rowling has said things that are hateful while others think she is protecting sex-based rights. Which one is it? That would depend on the subjective views of whoever you ask. Similarly, what about those who denounce J.K. Rowling and call her a TERF, a trans-exclusionary radical feminist, or use that term? Is it, or could it be considered, a form of hate speech?Assuming these comments are made in Ireland, the decision as to whether she would be prosecuted would depend on individuals in the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions or in the Judiciary at the time. Whatever a person's opinion on the transgender issue, he or she is liable to be prosecuted without a definition of hate and is subject to the whims and individual thoughts of those in the Director of Public Prosecutions or the Judiciary. We know well that people's views or opinions sway from time to time. On the national airwaves, the Minister said that hate is not a mild feeling but we are not legislating for people's feelings. We are legislating for what can be construed as hate without any definition. How can we do that? What does the term "hate" mean?"

It is very interesting. No politicians from what I see coming out to counter or condemn him. Carry on Sir, this is a great step.

Its very interesting that nobody appears to have put him off yet, even if they are saying his career is over.

It's sort of laughable how shocked he currently is, given this is the NATURAL FUCKING CONSEQUENCE of the law that he voted in and repeatedly supported a few short years ago. I can't help thinking - what the fuck did you think was going to happen when you remove all safeguarding and endorse this shit?

But then I think, at least someone else is saying something - we have had such a dearth of pushback in Ireland about this.

Even if he is late to the party, even if he was part of the problem, even if he is doing it cynically because he can see where the wind is blowing...I'm stick relieved and grateful for every person who says something.

https://twitter.com/GCraughwell/status/1688231916590260224?t=y55SGjah4jOtyvMRYVi_6Q&s=19
If it wasn't so serious his horror would almost be comical.
While part of me is wondering where he has been since 2015 I can only hope that he will have enough of a voice that he will be heard by some at least.
Or will he now be labelled as "far right"?

you asked why people said they were attached.

Yes because they clearly aren't.

Is there any practical (by this I mean not imaginary) link between same sex marriage and the GRA?

That was not what you asked and you have reached your own conclusion

If the GRA is a consitutional law a human female is not always a woman (a legal class) and men with GRCs are not women nor mothers (a sub-class of women)
A ) man goes to court (his newly birthed baby on hip) and says I want the govenment to be forced to pay me compensation for not providing me with my right an abortion the Judge will first ask for the section of the 2018 act which gave him the right to an abortion.

And? I think you're implying the judge would rule against the person taking the case but that's a pretty out there assumption.

Below is the legal framework for abortion provision in Ireland

The constitutional change was Sep 2018 and legislation was passed in Dec 2018.

Can you post up which bits which give a man a right to terminate a pregnancy?

FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS
PERSONAL RIGHTS
ARTICLE 40

1 All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law.
This shall not be held to mean that the State shall not in its enactments have due regard to differences of capacity, physical and moral, and of social function.

2 1° Titles of nobility shall not be conferred by the State.

2° No title of nobility or of honour may be accepted by any citizen except with the prior approval of the Government.

3 1° The State guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate the personal rights of the citizen.

2° The State shall, in particular, by its laws protect as best it may from unjust attack and, in the case of injustice done, vindicate the life, person, good name, and property rights of every citizen.

3° Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy.

Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018:

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2018/act/31/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2

I think they were all pretty convinced that listening to anyone who questioned this was like listening to the equivalent of the proud boys or other fringe groups made up of crazies, so why pollute your beautiful and pure mind with that kind of thing?

And sexual predation is probably not something they think much about, if they are nice guys.

Underlying this unquestioned acceptance lies the mysogynistic belief that no real man woudl want to be a woman. He might be gay, but he still wouldn't want to be a woman.

you asked why people said they were attached.

Yes because they clearly aren't.

If the GRA is a consitutional law a human female is not always a woman (a legal class) and men with GRCs are not women nor mothers (a sub-class of women)
A ) man goes to court (his newly birthed baby on hip) and says I want the govenment to be forced to pay me compensation for not providing me with my right an abortion the Judge will first ask for the section of the 2018 act which gave him the right to an abortion.

And? I think you're implying the judge would rule against the person taking the case but that's a pretty out there assumption.

Either way it has nothing to do with same sex marriage and a supposed link between it and the GRA.

Is there any practical (by this I mean not imaginary) link between same sex marriage and the GRA?

Or he is peaking in real time, in public?

Either he's been hacked or the dementors haven't found him yet...

Wow! He's talking about repealing the act.

So many politicians literally asleep at the wheel, when it comes to this issue: just taking their cues from young activist advisors and civil servants.

Almost like he was talking utter pish

Politician talks utter pish. Hold the front page.

Yes. Which was another epic, badly thought out mess that no one saw coming and the muppet responsible flounced as soon as it dawned on him.

There have got to be saner, better brains in the UK than this lot.

Precisely. The damage they've caused, and now they're bewailing the fact that they didn't actually understand the implications? Fucking muppets.

Well, the UK has Brexit as well ...

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/2023-06-21/12/

It just got personal

Good news is there is never one so passionate as a newly converted🤷

Newgrange Song😁

I dreamed myself from the salty plains
To the old green bog back in old Moycullen
Rode the wind up to Galway town
Paused at the peak, pacified my soul
Caught the bus in the fairy fort
Made it to the mansions on the Liffy
See I come around to the ancient ways
I took a tip from the Brendan the Navigator boy

I just found biology
(I just found biology)
Yeah, I just found biology
(I just found biology)
Yeah, I just found biology where it always was

We came down from the hill of dreams
Biology, mother earth and you and me
Through the nomination, down the second count side
Blinding our eyes in the shallow committees
Drank fire in the members only bar
Plugged in to the medicine way
Took a long last look at the big white house
Push now for a golden age

I just found biology
(I just found biology)
Yeah, I just found biology
(I just found biology)
Yeah, I just found biology where it always was

I found myself on the floor of the Dail
Just waiting for to get my wings
Strange woman in the changing light
Said "Brother, you forgot something"
My heart beat from the inside out
So lucky just to be alive
Can you tell what I'm talking about?
Any day now the sun's gonna rise

I just found biology
(I just found biology)
Yeah, I just found biology
(I just found biology)
Yeah, I just found biology where it always was

Hey, you just found biology where it always was
There is a green hill far away
I'm going back there one fine day
There is a green hill far away
I'm going back there one fine day
There is a green hill far away
I'm going back there one fine day
There is a green hill far away
I'm going back there one fine day
One fine day
One fine day
One fine day

This is from an article from 2019
https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/2019/10-october/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners

Currently, a pre-operative, pre-hormone therapy, male-to-female transgender prisoner is being held in Limerick women’s prison.

When before the court last July, the prisoner was in possession of a gender recognition certificate.

Robert Purcell is chair of the Law Society Criminal Law Committee: “The law that was enacted in 2015 did not envisage this situation, and it puts the Prison Service and the courts in a difficult position because, obviously, if somebody is self-declaring that they have to be recognised, then they have to be dealt with on that basis, even though physically, they have not have made the [physical] transformation.

“I don’t think the legislation envisaged the ability of transgender people to be able to self-declare; and it didn’t foresee the problems it would cause if a transgender, self-declared person was held in a mixed prison,” he said.

So they passed a law allowing people to self-declare their 'gender' and be recognised for all purposes as the opposite sex, but they didn't "envisage the ability of transgender people to be able to self-declare".

What did they think was going to happen?

Farkin H.

Are these lawmakers really so fucking dim? It's as if he was under a spell when he argued for hours about the benefits of self ID. Absolutely bizarre.

Well, even if its infuriating I suppose this is what we need more of?

I can't see SNP MSPs doing the same for some reason, though. I do remember during the GRR consultation they spoke to a politician from Ireland who said they hadn't thought it all through very well and there'd been unforeseen consequences. The Committee just nodded and smiled and ignored that bit.

It really is like many of these politicians have some astonishing mind blindness - a determined inability to think a thought through. And perhaps mostly on this subject?

😂