Where is the drive coming from?

Reference: https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/india/nestle-violates-law-in-india-conducts-clinical-trials-on-premature-infants-for-baby-food

Yes, this is pretty much what I was going to say.

I think its quite similar to how terrible policies take root in large multi national corporations.

I imagine no one individual is responsible for testing formula milk on premature babies in India. Babies died because of Nestle's policy, there, but has anyone been actually charged with murder? Or has the culpability disappeared into some miasma of organisational buck-passing?

Sure is @PriOn1.

Someone posted a link to a YouTube video linking transgender/ transhumanism above. Don't think I can face watching it...😒

this document which was partly written by Rosie Duffield and Miriam Cates is a response to the way that "gender identity beliefs came to be so embedded within the school system, by tracking the influence of external agencies promoting radical and unscientific beliefs within both the Department for Education and schools themselves. This has created a safeguarding blind spot when it comes to the issue of gender, which must be rectified urgently"

https://policyexchange.org.uk/publication/asleep-at-the-wheel/

I don’t want you to be right. I fear you are.

Painting is good therapy, isn’t it!

When something becomes embedded in organisations it becomes institutionalised, and when something is institutionalised and it takes on a life of its own. It runs automatically in a systemic and methodical way.

When an idea or a concept or a specific practice becomes embedded in such a way it soon becomes a 'total' institution within a generation or two. The founding principles or ideals are soon forgotten and the insitution simply replicates the practices and procedures put in place; with certain roles or jobs dedicated to ensuring they do.

When something becomes so ingrained in this way it takes root and branch surgery to alter its course, or to change it. We are having to chip away at an established edifice - bit by bit. It will take a long time.

Many people are caught up in the institution of TRA ideology: young people, their parents and families ( think of all those famous people and MPs with trans identified youngsters and children); a trans affirmative medical establishment ( embedded within the NHS); people who have committed their career to promoting trans ideology ( academics, teachers), and all those who saw an ecomic opportuinity and growth area and were quick to cash in on it.....and now big corporates keen to appear relevent and to keep up and coming generations of consumers on board.

I think there’s a very vocal monitory that are pushing it and most people are scared to object as they will be labelled bigots and transphobes.

It is important not to underestimate that point. Whatever the financial motives of the academica and businesses and money people driving this, the male participants are hugely influenced by porn, and males are exposed to porn now in ways they have never been before. That in turn is affecting all those women socialised to be kind.

Those men want sexual pleasure, and the ways they titillate themselves become steadily more extreme. People are still talking about 'it isn't about sex it's about power and domination' a cliche driven in the 80s when the whole sex-positive indoctrination started. Most of it is about sex for men, physical pleasure for men, ways for men to obtain sexual pleasure, male addiction and escalation.

One of the tips of the porn iceberg is the way schoolchildren are now expected to follow fashion, use cosmetics, distribute images of themselves, and have intimate (not necessarily sexual) relationships within a defined sexual orientation.

It's highly profitable for so many producers.

And then some girls want out.

This somewhat takes me back to Mary Harrington talking about the way birth control has changed people's thinking around health care. So, a drug, in this case, which actually suppresses the natural body functions, is seen as giving health, and also as basic health care.

It's very difficult for us now to think about this clearly, not least because childbearing really is hard on the body. But I think it's important to look at it really clearly. The function of sex is to reproduce by creating offspring. The function of birth control is to allow people to make that act functionally unrelated to reproduction, to make us infertile, at least temporarily. That's notionally very different than stopping disease, restoring body systems that aren't operating properly, or repairing a broken leg.

In a way many strains of feminism have actually hardened this, because they conceptualize this kind of control over pregnancy, while still allowing sexual intercourse, as necessarily for women to live fully authentic, free lives. So it is only by having the option of changing our human biological function through technology that women can exist as fully human autonomous beings.

People will sometimes argue that it's not that important in feminism, but just try having a discussion with feminists and argue that birth control and abortion aren't integral pieces to women's freedom/political autonomy. Most can't really even conceptualize what a feminism where those things aren't available, or aren't necessary, would look like.

@PriOn1 True. But AI isn't a theory, it's happening now, including the bots on Mumsnet.

And is my theory more or less crazy than the leader of the Labour party publicly declaring that "not just women have a cervix"?

Anyway, my head is spinning, I don't want to be right, and I'm off to paint my bedroom for the day. 😀

This is a presentation by Martine Rothblatt in 2016 linking transgender and transhuman technology.
Very interesting in relation to this discussion!
(It's about an hour long).
I watched it years ago- but this discussion made me go and re-find it.
I'll have to watch it myself again- as can't remember the details but it immediately came to mind

I think that’s definitely on M. Rothblatt’s agenda, SunnieShine. Very difficult to discuss any of this because it’s open to accusations of conspiracy theories.

There’s something going on here that is very much unlike the human rights advances we’ve seen in the past though, which gathered momentum and support over time, unlike this which seemingly arrived very suddenly everywhere and appears to be gradually losing support as the public become aware of the ramifications.

Check out the hundreds of humanist organisations in US. All run by biological men, a big proportion of those heads have now transed.

It's an assault on reality over multiple fronts. The AGP impulse absolutely runs deep.

"There seems to be a strong overlap between the type of men who work in Silicon Valley...but the seeds were sown somewhere. It’s not an organic grass-roots movement"

Which kind of links to my point. AI development in Silicon Valley - And elsewhere . In a world where increasingly who controls tech controls pretty much everything and everyone.

Where AI requires a suspension of belief in what it means to be human. And if you can convince (some/many) people to doubt their own perception and see a woman where there is clearly a man it's a short step to convincing them a computer programme/robot is really just another kind of human. And those that disagree are just bigoted/boring old women who "don't understand".

I know I'm not being very articulate here. But a massive power grab is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Again, I hope I'm wrong but...

I think the point of the money behind it is that someone created all those zealot EDIs. Universities have all changed from women’s studies to gender studies, for example. If you look at most people on the ground, they don’t believe for a moment that men are women. This movement is top down and hasn’t appeared simultaneously in so many countries by accident.

There’s an extent to which I would suspect they’ve been fortunate. There seems to be a strong overlap between the type of men who work in Silicon Valley and men who cross dress, for example, which means large parts of social media are captured. There’s also no doubt it’s a movement that appeals to misogynists who have been angry over the changes brought by the women’s rights movements, but the seeds were sown somewhere. It’s not an organic grass-roots movement.

I think each company has at least one senior emoloyee who believes their fanbase is more virtuous than those of the other companies who stumbled in their calling.

Nothing gets in the way of men and their sex drive.

@Farmageddon thank you

Somewhat related to this, there are some really interesting interviews online with a woman called Keri Smith, who talks about what it was like to be part of the Social Justice Cult.
It's very US centred, but still a really good insight into why so many people (especially young women) go along with and support this stuff.

I haven't had a chance to read the article posted above (although I will later) but I do think in the majority of these progress flag companies, it's the same as at my school. It's not some multicorporation conspiracy.

Each company simply has a zealot EDI. The bosses around them don't think about it too hard and just nod it through, "that's EDI's dept, let them do their thing."

That's how we wind up with a double mastectomy cartoon in a coffee shop ad.

We few GC mumsnetters might do a little boycott drive but it won't touch their numbers, they'll wave it away under COL. A few angry people will write in and be ignored.

Huge thanks to @PriOn1 please read

https://thefederalist.com/2018/02/20/rich-white-men-institutionalizing-transgender-ideology/#.WowaHsS0mwM.twitter

Dreadful. I'm sure lots of parents would homeschool if they could afford it. Although the things like guides/scouts you might want to put children in to socialise are captured too.

Most people are faxing it in for their jobs. They will go along with it unless there is a direct problem they personally have to deal with.

Quite often people are recruited exactly for this compliant tendency, deference etc. Critical thinking not so much.

Agreed, of course. Being a manager (hiring, advertising, or any other kind) is not an indicator of critical thinking abilities. People aren't promoted for their thinking. They're promoted for all sorts of other things, some circumstantial. Some managers are brilliant minds and some are idiots, there's no correlation really