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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Where is the drive coming from?

111 replies

Teriyakieverything · 02/08/2023 16:43

I don't get it. Time after time, so many high profile cases where institutions and corporations push for self ID/gender ideology/queer theory and the impacted people or customers have clearly said 'no', and I thought that must be it, it'll stop after this - it doesn't, it just carries on, wave after wave of this BS, it's relentless.

It's like they don't care what the customers think even if they get boycotted, e.g. BudLight, Maybelline, Costa, Dr Martin are recent cases that come to mind. Do companies not care about falling sales and bad PR anymore, do they not care about making profits, how do they continue to exist?

Schools - where is the drive to keep going with this BS despite parents objecting and pupils calling it out. Drag queen story time in libraries, why are some councils pushing this?

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Hepwo · 04/08/2023 22:57

Men don't like these men, try want them out of the way and palmed off onto women.

RealityFan · 04/08/2023 22:55

ChokkaQuokka · 04/08/2023 22:50

The irony and sadness in which is that TW are dying in South America because they engage in prostitution at high rates, and that’s a dangerous business.

I remember reading a thread on Twitter years ago that stayed with me, saying: if all those TW billionaires really wanted to reduce the murder rate of TW, they’d fund job programs to get South American TW out of sex work.

TW = good
Sex work = good
TW doing sex work = as good as it gets

Hepwo · 04/08/2023 22:51

They have all been hired in diversity and inclusion jobs.

ChokkaQuokka · 04/08/2023 22:50

RealityFan · 04/08/2023 22:31

Sex Work Is Work already being pimped (pun intended) by the likes of Nadia Whittome.

The irony and sadness in which is that TW are dying in South America because they engage in prostitution at high rates, and that’s a dangerous business.

I remember reading a thread on Twitter years ago that stayed with me, saying: if all those TW billionaires really wanted to reduce the murder rate of TW, they’d fund job programs to get South American TW out of sex work.

RealityFan · 04/08/2023 22:31

Sex Work Is Work already being pimped (pun intended) by the likes of Nadia Whittome.

RealityFan · 04/08/2023 22:16

ChokkaQuokka · 04/08/2023 21:58

Fair challenge on the MeToo element, and I’m not suggesting that the sex/don’t want tin be seen as uptight story explains everything. But it does explain a lot.

if anything, what is going on is a backlash to MeToo and an effort to inoculate a subclass of men from MeToo accusations and consequences. Did a straight white cis man look at you sideways? Cancel him! Did the poor oppressed transbian strip off in your change room or have her advances to lesbians knocked back? She’s the victim, terf bigots!

The causes doesn’t have to be just one thing. A porn-soaked “sex positive/don’t be uptight” agenda layered on top of the pre-exisiting pseudo-Christian valorising of victimhood (“the last shall be first” becomes “I’m more oppressed than you”), using the tactics borrowed from a successful actual human rights movement (“born this way”), laced with a bunch of fear and conformity in an over-produced elite — and here we are.

Bit we shouldn’t be surprised that the next thing chanted after TWAW is Sex Work is Work. It’s inherent to the motivation.

Yes, the whole "aggressor as victim" Inversion is fascinating. I also think woke/trans rights would be all powerful had Christianity maintained its hold in Western society.

There's no doubt that the Oppressed Olympics would have been extremely visible, maybe even the level of overreach we're seeing today.

Any thoughts that consigning organised religion and the all powerful heirarchy of men in charge of societal norms back in the day to oblivion, to be replaced by a true rebalancing of the sexes, shown to be naive.

Never has passive aggressiveness been seen to this level.

ChokkaQuokka · 04/08/2023 21:58

RealityFan · 04/08/2023 09:13

And how does this gel with all the MeToo cases where men's careers are ended for getting it out in front of women, in lifts, auditions etc?

It's too easy to say this is just sexual liberation 2.0 on steroids.

My take is that, yes, the dropping of all mores is part of it. But it's also a mutation of the New Atheists movement of the 90s and 00s where all prurience and moralising are to be shunned and eliminated.

Not so much anti religion as anti all imposed societal standards and boundaries.

So "no sex outside marriage, gay is evil" etc have been memoryholed, now we're onto "no, a man cannot become a woman, and no, it's morally wrong to put teens on a medical pathway, and no, lesbians should be able to exclude men who've transed" as the new moralism that must be torn down.

Throw in the trans child as an almost chimeric like concept for a whole elites class who've consigned traditional organised religion to the dustbin, and you have a very powerful, metaphysical concept mindset.

And the cheerleaders are in DEI, politics, medicine, arts, social sciences and the media.

Fair challenge on the MeToo element, and I’m not suggesting that the sex/don’t want tin be seen as uptight story explains everything. But it does explain a lot.

if anything, what is going on is a backlash to MeToo and an effort to inoculate a subclass of men from MeToo accusations and consequences. Did a straight white cis man look at you sideways? Cancel him! Did the poor oppressed transbian strip off in your change room or have her advances to lesbians knocked back? She’s the victim, terf bigots!

The causes doesn’t have to be just one thing. A porn-soaked “sex positive/don’t be uptight” agenda layered on top of the pre-exisiting pseudo-Christian valorising of victimhood (“the last shall be first” becomes “I’m more oppressed than you”), using the tactics borrowed from a successful actual human rights movement (“born this way”), laced with a bunch of fear and conformity in an over-produced elite — and here we are.

Bit we shouldn’t be surprised that the next thing chanted after TWAW is Sex Work is Work. It’s inherent to the motivation.

AutumnCrow · 04/08/2023 12:55

Nice to the regulators coming under scrutiny over the Great EDI Swindle. The Telegraph has been thorough on this, while the BBC turns its head away.

I was wondering why IPSO finally found its balls.

Teriyakieverything · 04/08/2023 11:52

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/03/fca-sheldon-mills-chairman-stonewall-diversity-guidelines/

Another example of the top down drive of this culture, and the regulators are also corrupted, who regulates the regulators? Why are institutions not doing the jobs they are meant to do, or paid to do, anymore? Because, no consequences? Is that the nature of corruption and power?

FCA executive was chairman of Stonewall while charity created diversity guidelines

Sheldon Mills denies that the watchdog’s inclusivity initiatives have fuelled the culture that led to Nigel Farage’s bank account closure

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/03/fca-sheldon-mills-chairman-stonewall-diversity-guidelines

OP posts:
Farmageddon · 04/08/2023 11:16

For mentioning the thing we're not supposed to talk about, because apparently it doesn't exist....except it does.

ArabeIIaScott · 04/08/2023 11:10

What was the deletion for?

RealityFan · 04/08/2023 11:04

Farmageddon · 04/08/2023 10:59

Haha, told you it would be deleted....

I would say unbelievable...but then, what over the last decade hasn't been unbelievable?

What's the justification for mass deletions using those three letters acronym?

Farmageddon · 04/08/2023 10:59

Haha, told you it would be deleted....

Farmageddon · 04/08/2023 10:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Teriyakieverything · 04/08/2023 10:49

Not so much anti religion as anti all imposed societal standards and boundaries.

^^And I think this is exactly what Queer Theory combined with 'Marxism' does... the relentless drive stems from considering all societal norms and boundaries as a form of Oppression that must be destroyed/dismantled, 'for the greater good'. As those outside of 'norm' are considered Oppressed (by definition, REGARDLESS of whether they actually are or not), and those within the 'norm' are considered the Oppressors. It gives destructive power to those CLAIMING victimhood, and those Allies who are helping to destroy Oppression. Hence why there appears to be so much social kudos accorded to those claiming victimhood points.

OP posts:
RealityFan · 04/08/2023 09:13

ChokkaQuokka · 04/08/2023 03:42

Most instances of nefariousness are motivated by factors that book down to power, money and sex. And most of the time the power side is really a money or sex thing deep down.

An important part of sexual motivation for progressives is the desire not to be thought of as “uptight”, which codes to them as politically conservative and probably religious.

Thus the admonition not to kink shame, “sex work is work” and so forth. And in particular, not to be uptight about other people’s naked bodies. This is why trans issues actually attract such vehement “allies” relative to allies of LGB: ensuring young women see penises in the change room is not a bug, it’s the whole point, to ensure they don’t become uptight and frigid.

sexually motivated men combined with people of both sexes who don’t want to seem sexually uptight result in an environment where indecent exposure is reframed as a good thing, sexually explicit shows in front of children is reframed as good for their development etc etc

And how does this gel with all the MeToo cases where men's careers are ended for getting it out in front of women, in lifts, auditions etc?

It's too easy to say this is just sexual liberation 2.0 on steroids.

My take is that, yes, the dropping of all mores is part of it. But it's also a mutation of the New Atheists movement of the 90s and 00s where all prurience and moralising are to be shunned and eliminated.

Not so much anti religion as anti all imposed societal standards and boundaries.

So "no sex outside marriage, gay is evil" etc have been memoryholed, now we're onto "no, a man cannot become a woman, and no, it's morally wrong to put teens on a medical pathway, and no, lesbians should be able to exclude men who've transed" as the new moralism that must be torn down.

Throw in the trans child as an almost chimeric like concept for a whole elites class who've consigned traditional organised religion to the dustbin, and you have a very powerful, metaphysical concept mindset.

And the cheerleaders are in DEI, politics, medicine, arts, social sciences and the media.

TodayInahurry · 04/08/2023 08:04

hopefully we will get more revaluations like the current scandal at Coutts/NatWest which was a fully paid up member of all this current evil. Numerous people have had their accounts closed because they objected to the rainbow flags etc.

it is censorship to keep people quiet. I did not know about this evil until the Mr Farage case, and it continues to bite them in the backside. All the banks are doing it, the even de-banked Gina Miller

DenmarkStreet · 04/08/2023 07:44

I work for a very woke American company, woke in many senses. We have so far had 3 trans awareness trainings / seminars this year, all of low quality. I think many employees actually don't attend and questions are very much screened and discouraged. The driver seem to be very much the LGBTQ network group, run by gay males. HR seem to be more passive and are ok with being influenced by the LGBTQ network. I doubt anyone in senior management have thought about this longer than ensuring that the ESG report looks nice.

DeanElderberry · 04/08/2023 07:40

I've been rewatching Star Trek Enterprise and yesterday got to the episode with T'Pol and the creepy Vulcan. Bad enough when he's following her around trying to corner her, but his self righteous defence afterwards when Archer tackles him 'I was helping her shed a lifetime of inhibitions . . .'

Framing women's choices and tastes and preferences and self-protections as 'inhibitions' is deeply insidious.

(Archer sends him packing, but T'Pol is never the same again. It isn't a physical rape, but it's really well done. STE was very unappreciated, but I think it holds up well - apart from the theme song, and the final episode which people should just not watch - it damages the rest of the show.)

Kucinghitam · 04/08/2023 06:54

ChokkaQuokka · 04/08/2023 03:42

Most instances of nefariousness are motivated by factors that book down to power, money and sex. And most of the time the power side is really a money or sex thing deep down.

An important part of sexual motivation for progressives is the desire not to be thought of as “uptight”, which codes to them as politically conservative and probably religious.

Thus the admonition not to kink shame, “sex work is work” and so forth. And in particular, not to be uptight about other people’s naked bodies. This is why trans issues actually attract such vehement “allies” relative to allies of LGB: ensuring young women see penises in the change room is not a bug, it’s the whole point, to ensure they don’t become uptight and frigid.

sexually motivated men combined with people of both sexes who don’t want to seem sexually uptight result in an environment where indecent exposure is reframed as a good thing, sexually explicit shows in front of children is reframed as good for their development etc etc

You've nicely explained a general feeling I've had about this for ages, but hadn't quite formulated, thank you!

ChokkaQuokka · 04/08/2023 03:42

Most instances of nefariousness are motivated by factors that book down to power, money and sex. And most of the time the power side is really a money or sex thing deep down.

An important part of sexual motivation for progressives is the desire not to be thought of as “uptight”, which codes to them as politically conservative and probably religious.

Thus the admonition not to kink shame, “sex work is work” and so forth. And in particular, not to be uptight about other people’s naked bodies. This is why trans issues actually attract such vehement “allies” relative to allies of LGB: ensuring young women see penises in the change room is not a bug, it’s the whole point, to ensure they don’t become uptight and frigid.

sexually motivated men combined with people of both sexes who don’t want to seem sexually uptight result in an environment where indecent exposure is reframed as a good thing, sexually explicit shows in front of children is reframed as good for their development etc etc

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/08/2023 19:11

Rudderneck · 03/08/2023 17:57

I guess though it still leaves the question, what is the advantage for them? Attaching to anything divisive has to be a risk, why take a risk if you don't need to?

It’s not really a risk to the parent corporation to have Bud Light go for the T crowd because Bud Light is only one of over 100 brands of beer owned by the Anheuser-Busch corporation.

With that many brands of beer, the way you dominate the market is to market different brands to different niches of customers.

AutumnCrow · 03/08/2023 18:01

Toseland · 02/08/2023 17:17

I think it's part of corporate ESG policy.

Yep, the EDI grift that sank Nat West’s reputation and its CEO.

Rudderneck · 03/08/2023 17:57

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/08/2023 16:37

100% - corporations have no business ‘lobbying’ the public on political issues.
Boycotts only work if a majority of customers participate such that it actually affects their bottom line.

The public may buy “spin” as they don’t really track a corporations financial performance, but their c-suite isn’t going to buy it.

I guess though it still leaves the question, what is the advantage for them? Attaching to anything divisive has to be a risk, why take a risk if you don't need to?