Barbie

'And people are happy to call transwomen transwomen, we’re just not happy
to call them women,'

You said that despite the fact the post I made was in direct relation to a poster who made that claim several , several times that they were not transwomen and were men.

Yes, clever whataboutery. I mean there are loads of cases of people being criticised for being in films cause they have red hair or are fat. Not.
Please dont pretend people with ginger hair have the same issues as teans people. Its embarrassing.

@WildUnchartedWaters I addressed all your points excepting the last one, which was something about Ken committing suicide, I think? It's not an insult to tell you that thinking the huge amounts of plastic we manufacture is trivial is an uneducated viewpoint. You can educate yourself, quite easily, using the internet.

That's what I'm saying, calling a woman a man. You think it should be prosecuted?

I didn’t say no one is saying they’re not transwomen, I said that no one has the right to insist on being called what they want. This is about what rights transpeople don’t have, not what people on this thread have said.
Also it wasn’t about the stigma about being fat or ginger, it was about you saying that every other characteristic is protected except for being trans.
Don’t accuse me of not reading posts properly when you have misinterpreted what has been said.

The barbie film is responsible for damage to the environment. Righto.

Which last point didnt you understand?

It was nice of you to not address any of the rest of the post after being frankly insulting to me.

@WildUnchartedWaters
Yes, so you enjoyed it as light entertainment. I get that.
No, corporate media will never expose itself to that degree. Corporate capitalism's patriarchal structures make it the antithesis of feminism.
Your opinion that concern about plastic is 'churlish' is uneducated and tone deaf to the damage done to our oceans and environment.
I don't understand your final point. As I said, enjoy it as entertainment if you like. Others are free to disagree.

No, because I'd laugh. and the people I work with cal me far worse

Not the same as calling a transwoman a man and this faux confusion is tedious.

Where you said nobody is saying threyre not transwomen. You might want to look at the post I was responding to when someone said it at least 3 time.

I dont really want to talk about your weight but let's not pretend that's the stigma it used to be. Same with red hair.

My dad loves love actually. Loves it. Enjoys it every christmas with a nice drink or food or whatever with his family. Hes retired and quite a mans man if you will.

I could point out the dreadful relationships in it, or I could let him watch his film.

If we all adapted the same attitude Disney would be out for a start. I'm not having my kids thinking it's normal to fall in love with someone who hols you hostage, a man you've known 3 days, your boss in the army, a man who murders your partner, to be in love with your sister (bonuscpoints if you can name the films).

Some people like to go and watch a light funny film and that's allowed. I loved it. As I aud upthread i was a plus one but i thought it was brilliant. And I work in male mental health so I could bore everyone senseless about it but I recognised it for what it was.

They cast Margot robbie for a girl who didn't want to be ordinary fs. The producers were laughing all the way through.

The speech at the end about the expectations on women was pretty powerful.

Or maybe not powerful enough considering we're on a thread where people are shitting on the director and producer because of the unrealistic expectations they've put on them in the making of their film ABOUT A DOLL.

"It doesn't even deal with puberty or abortion"

It's a fun movie about a doll....

What equivalence? What do you mean?

I just asked if you think women should be able to have people who say they are not women prosecuted.

I actually don't think so. What about you?

I have read all the posts on this thread, and I stand by everything I said, can you give me an example of where I’m wrong?

Hey OP I think you're getting a rough ride from people who aren't reading your post fully. I think it's clear from your post that you're frustrated about men in your life ignoring your opinions and telling you what to do. That does sound really annoying!

(And I'd not heard that is meant to be a feminist film - you learn something new every day on here! )

Re all the comments saying you can't have an opinion on something you haven't seen....Well you kind of can. We all do this when we decide not to see a film if it doesn't sound like what we would enjoy (same with choosing reading books, despite the old adage 'don't judge a book by it's cover'). Yes, you're not then in a position to make an in depth critical analysis of the work, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing.

Tell those men to do one with their critiques of your feminism!

I have neither seen it, nor been asked if I have.

Just don't understand how you've been constantly having to defend your opinion about it, must run in an exhausting circle of people

I do want to see it so its not like I have anything against it, I also haven't read up on it so don't know what to expect I just want to figure it out for myself.

I don't get why it's a female film maker's job to address all issues that affect women?

It's a film about Barbie and Ken - it addresses issues that are relevant in that context and which can be dealt with humorously.

There are other films that address other issues. Why does the Barbie film have to do everything? It's stupid to think that a comedy film about dolls is going to somehow bring women out of poverty or end domestic violence.

I have heartily recommended it to everyone as freshest film for years

This is why I'm recommending it tbh. Was discussing it at dinner with wider family and a few weren't keen / couldn't understand why I enjoyed it and I said to my dad -- what was the last major blockbuster that was made for women by women? And I'm not talking about where they've just shoehorned women into a predominantly male IP like star wars or marvel or avengers etc. And I'm not talking about where they've taken a kids movie and decided grown assed women should like it too like beauty and the beast or maleficent or cinderella or avatar.

He had to think really hard and eventually said (sheepishly!), "Was it Titanic? Fuck me that's the only one I can think of?" My dad's a decent man who I like to think is as aware of the issues as any, but he was genuinely shocked and it seemed to really sink in for him then just how skewed the movie industry is towards stereotypically male IPs.

So like... I don't think this film solved world peace but can we not all agree that if it's successful enough, maybe down the road we might start getting films made for women by women that do a better job of trying? And if not... maybe we'll have more decent movies and entertainment made for us instead of being shoehorned in as #bossbabe superheroes or gratefully lumped in with the children for the next kickass princess movie.

False equivalence.

I dont have an issue with the phrase transwomen. I have an issue with the phrase women.

Incidentally, thre was a huge uproar on here not too long ago about the word ciswomen. Why? After all, it's just a word.

Oh wow....

Where to start.

My own roots could write their own story I grew up watching gritty documentaries and films , I didnt see a chick flick until I was in my 20s. I was gender non confirking as it would be now as a kid so barbie never came near my house, now that it would have done anyway even if I'd wanted it. My pal asked me to go see barbie as a favour to her for a good laugh after a horrific divorce. We went to a later screening, one of the popcorn and prosecco ons. I'm not sure she would have enjoyed a miserable film.

Your comment about plastic is just churlish.

Incidentally could you point me out one film, mainstream, or disney or musical background that paints the actual realities of the situation? Any? I'm not taking about cool kid gritty films which of course is all you've ever watched.

Speaking of which, perhaps the film could have had the number of male domestic abuse victims we never talk about, talked about how males are routinely abused on tv or had ken committing suicide. That would have bee in line wouldnt it? Wheres the outrage for men getting the absolute piss ripped out of them?

But you enjoy your outrage about sweatshops. It just might be an idea not to judge people you dont know.

I've seen it twice and thought it was loads of fun. Visually it is stunning and the visual humour is incredible. I loved Ken so much. It's just a very entertaining film that laughs at itself.

The speech at the end about the expectations on women was pretty powerful. Also liked the bit when they're rollerskating and Barbie encounters the male gaze and sexual harassment for the first time.

Yes there was a male playing a barbie and that was dumb and annoying. BUT! There was also the bit where the CEO of Mattell says to the Barbie president, "Call me mother" and she says "No thank you" - loved that. As well as the exec at the board meeting saying "I don't have any power here - does that make me a woman?" I thought it was clever and not as woke as it's made out to be.

But overall, it's just a funny film and hating it without even seeing it because you don't think it's feminist enough for you is just pretty joyless, really.

@WildUnchartedWaters I'm a woman. If someone online persistently tells me I'm a man, should I have the right to have them prosecuted?

You might want to read the page of posts that I originally said this in before posting what you just have.

But they were allowed to play a doll in the film, the fact that they’re in the film shows that this is untrue. And people are happy to call transwomen transwomen, we’re just not happy
to call them women, because they’re not women. And it isn’t a right to get everyone to call you something just because you want to. I could ask everyone to call me Kate Moss, but it isn’t my right to force everyone to do so.
My DS is ginger and has no protection from discrimination, I’m fat and have no protection from discrimination (nor should I TBF, it’s my fault I’m fat) it’s untrue to say that every single characteristic has protection from discrimination.
So luckily and happily, it seems that transpeople have exactly the same rights as everyone else, hooray.

Sorry, are these issues too gritty for you and your 'prosecco' pals? They are reality, which is the concern of feminism. Actually, even middle class prosecco drinking women need abortions sometimes... But if people like the film on the grounds that they enjoy it and don't mind it being a marketing ploy to create mountains more plastic, exploit many more workers in sweatshop conditions, and commodify and dumb down feminism - rock on! Enjoy.

Wed all have been lining up to see that film with our pals and prosecco.

In going to assume that was genuine and not PA but no I didnt.

Well, on this thread alone they're nor allowed to play a doll in a film because someone decided they cant. They're not even allowed to he called a transwoman. And as my lovely pal upthread pointed out, without transition they have no protection from discrimination in the same way that every single other characteristic in society does.