Now that some *men* are commenting, it's all changing over on Twitter...

When men tell men that works.

My DH tuned me out, but then to be fair on him, did read people like Janice Turner and from then in was more willing to listen.

Bloke here . I was first alerted to this whole problem in 2017 by another bloke who told me he agreed with a third bloke called Graham Linehan. I've been posting about it since then. Been booted from a few group chats , mainly by women.

This means nothing of course - except I don't have the profile of Andrew Neil. Or JKR for that matter.

That article is extraordinarily accurate and wide ranging in its understanding given it was written six years ago before the Cass report and so much else.

Thank you for posting that.

Great article, thanks for the link. And six effing years ago! Most of it could have been written today. How long it’s taken for people to catch up.

I can see people's frustration but personally I think the more people speaking up the better. I woke up to trans ideology in 2017 when it impacted me directly. I felt like a bit of a fraud and latecomer at the time because I had previously been a "be kind" person and I couldn't work out how I had not understood what was going on from the start. We need it to be acceptable again to state the truth. For this to happen TERFism needs to go mainstream. That means people from all political and social backgrounds, all religions and ethnicities, men and women of all ages and sexualities throwing a spanner in the works. This also includes annoying people who don't appear to have previously listened to a word women have been saying for the last 20 years (or so). Also I agree there's quite a few nice men that have stuck their necks out over the last few years and who have suffered the consequences.

Bra burning man haters are caricatures of (mostly second wave) feminists that don't really exist, made up to scare people off or sneer at women who dared to rock the boat.

They created a neat path into nice, fun, friendly lib feminism that is less challenging to the orthodoxy.

It depends what you mean by feminist. I have always been in favour of women's rights but I until recently would have had no idea which category of feminist I might fall into. I was certainly never a bra-burning man-hater.
I suppose given my age, I am likely closest to a Germaine Greer 2nd Wave type but what does it matter really apart from the fact that many younger 'intersectional feminists' are centring 'men' in their feminism and acting against their own sex's and children's interests.
We could cut them the slack of having been indoctrinated into 'being kind' and having been told sinisterly that 'free speech has consequences'. When the whole point of free speech is that you should be challenged with counter-arguments rather than cancelled for 'wrong think'.

Like customers, men are always right.

Men like to be right!

Someone I was friends with for over 40 years married an American woman who is full-on TWAW and he's going along with her views. It's sad, but I can't see us getting together again.

Exactly this. They have to buy the whole deal. I’ve given up talking to American friends about trans issues for this reason.

Women and feminists are not all on the same page, no. Would be an odd assertion to say that they are?

That does not make it unreasonable for regular people to see this as an issue where women and feminists are not all on the same page.

Good point well made @ArabeIIaScott

Those would largely be libfems.

Genderism fits comfortably in libfem discourse.

The feminists who have been raising the issues and talking about them have largely been radical feminists - 'not the fun kind'.

They probably feel the same way about mumsnet, how can all those domesticated cows have credible thoughts on gender ideology and women’s rights. That’s for the academics to pontificate on.

These women have probably got internalised misogyny. You see it here with the disdain the Daily Mail is treated, some posters find cognitively dissonance in that a paper aimed at women is doing so much good journalism on women’s rights. They are heartbroken that the Guardian is ignoring women’s rights.

I don't know about this. Obviously there are some (hugely) brave voices who have spoken out and discussed this. And MN etc.

But I listen to lots of well educated self-identified feminists on podcasts/in the workplace etc who absolutely should have been across this topic and instead have been a fully paid up part of the 'be kind' brigade.

And they're still doing it now. With Elon taking over Twitter and the new deluge of GC voices - these feminists are now switching over to the new platform because they say twitter has become too nasty, too unpleasant now. Framed in the type of self-congratulating 'I won't engage in/see this new hateful content discussion AND I'm protecting my own mental health from social media nastiness'.

These are women I otherwise hugely respect and enjoy their thoughts on a multitude of topics. Like other MNetters have said, you can be blind to this issue until you realise what's happening. So I would also agree - where have all the feminists been on this? Feminism is a broad church and we've missed swathes of people who normally stand up for women on this particular topic.

Still, if we're getting to the point where people are clamouring to claim they were on board all along, it's a good thing overall, I suppose
Yes. Galling, but ultimately positive.

The thing is , until Twitter allowed free speech, the only place the issue of women’s rights, being threatened by trans activists, was regularly raised, was here on mumsnet. It’s taken a while and a critical mass for it to escape a woman’s website and also the Daily Mail, a women’s paper.

It’s not a coincidence that Terf island is also the home of mumsnet and KJK and J K Rowling.

Having a prime minister who allows free speech in his party has helped and the much maligned Matt Hancock has to be thanked for commissioning the Cass report