Janice Turner on Labour u-turn

Excellent point LoobiJee it can’t be both things at once.
And while I’m delighted that Labour are saying single sex spaces matter, and no to self ID, and that some of their GC MPs are publicly out and that it’s the end of Labour’s #nodebate years.. Labour really do need to be pressured on the GRC reforms that they are proposing. They're awful.

They want a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from only one doctor not two, and the panel that grants the certificate to be replaced by a single registrar. That isn’t a serious process for an incredibly serious legal change.

Getting a GRC isn’t hard now. Why should it be easier? Why is it so ridiculously cheap?
Why did the Tories reduce the admin charge to £5? Are they trying to incentivise the take up?

It is also shameful that immigrants who typically support the economy and take less from public services than they put back in taxes paid here, are charged many thousands by the home office in the UK to process their forms.

That cost would imply that some wages clearly need to be charged to cover to government administrators to process applicant paperwork. In which case the Tories’ big GRC reform that was to charge £5 to process a GRC is a complete joke. Either convening a panel and paying two doctors to sign forms is only costing £5 or there are some seriously confused government ministers in charge of this. What do Labour say..?

Interesting. They can get done infighting going on.

Prepare for a long period of drawn out grey was. Elite sport and prisons protected from trans entry. But ructions in amateur sport/parkruns, clubs. Maybe some moderate resolution in other single sex spaces like changing rooms and refuges. Even toilets may still be a battleground.
"Hey you, where's you're GRC?"
"You have no right to demand that"
Are we gonna get JSO type scenarios where women and men will feel emboldened to eject men from spaces? I think so.

But the days of expecting individuals to self police and do the right thing for society are behind us. Women will never be allowed to feel good or safe.

Maybe a decade of this will end up in society finding it's way again, but I fear not.

And in society, the narrative will swing back to the GC realism position, but so many elites and managerial class leftists will never recant, or if they do, it'll be the lame way Nandy has done.

So much policy dialog will be all to make trans lives easier, women must continually budge up. The equivalent of transpreading, but at policy level. It'll be slow attrition.

Whether there'll be any real apologies or re prioritising of girls and women no. So plenty of chat on the horrors of Andrew Tate style misogyny etc, nothing about the shift of men to redefine women.

Will it feel like a victory? I really don't know, I'm not a woman. Civil wars never end well for either side.

Quote from Ben Bradshaw.

“I’m delighted we are defending the Equality Act, when the Tories are proposing to strip trans people of their protections under the Act, and that we are recommitting to modernising the gender reassignment process, which currently is dehumanising and overly bureaucratic,” he says. “But I am concerned that we appear to be retreating somewhat from our commitment to demedicalise the process.”

Quote from Dawn Butler

“Dawn Butler has tweeted “A few people have asked me and to confirm, my position on the trans issue has not changed since 2020. I will be speaking to Anneliese Dodds and Keir Starmer to seek clarification on any changes to Labour 2020 position. We must not fall into the trap set by the Tories.”

And while the TRAs seem to have had behind the scenes reassurances, no one seems to have done Rosie Duffield the courtesy of discussing it with her.

“Meanwhile, Rosie Duffield – who many women say needs an apology from Starmer before Labour will gain their vote – says: “I was not consulted on this policy, I just read it in the papers like everyone else. Is this really how we do it?” Starmer hasn’t met her since Sept 2021.

I see this as societal malaise, likely aggravated by our atomised lives on social media.

GIDS/Tavistock. But also Grenfell. Windrush Scandal. Even this infected blood scandal. Various grooming scandals. The catalogue of errors that led to the Manchester Arena bombing. The teacher in Batley still under police guard/the kid victimised for scuffed Koran.

Nothing really grabs the national Psyche anymore. Drives us as people to action. Maybe Brexit only.

Social media. The culture war. Taking sides.

I read the Cass interim report, and unfolding Mermaids scandal and counted down to what I thought would be action.

3...2...1...nada.

Even now I'm unsure if the majority have heard of Mermaids, the Tavistock scandal. I don't think they have.

There’s some really crucial intelligence provided by Suzanne in that article.

Firstly, behind the scenes, the TRAs in the party have been given assurances.

“But yesterday, Russell-Moyle told me that he, for one, is broadly on board. “There are parts of how the leadership’s announcement has been interpreted that I think goes further than the compromise,” he says. “I have expressed that to them.”

Second, the TRAs in the party are going to re-brand self-ID as ‘de-medicalisation’, and campaign for the GRC process to be the same as getting the back of your new passport photo signed before you send off the passport application.

“Self-ID is a poor policy name for demedicalisation, which is what I support. I want to make it clear that demedicalisation is vital.” He adds: ‘We can achieve this through a process of external verification and can be achieved with other non medical professionals (social workers, councillors etc).”

Third, they are sticking to their women do not have an automatic right to single-sex female-only spaces, facilities and services policy, as they are sticking to their case-by-case basis position/ campaign.

“Crucially, Russell-Moyle tells me, “I am also pleased that we will keep the current system of sex and gender reassignment-protected characteristics in the Equality Act, giving flexibility for people to make exclusions based on biological sex, legal sex and gender reassignment on a case by case basis using the legal principle ‘proportionate means for a legitimate aim’.”

Polly Carmichael is still head of GIDS,isn’t she? Despite it all? Despite numerous critical reports and a whole book about her disturbing little empire?

The blog post from the swim official linked to on another thread gives the lie to the myth that a GRC makes any difference.

That person started cross-dressing full-time at home during lockdown, and then after two weeks decided to “transition”. So the absolute earliest date of that decision was end March 2020. By 17 July 2021 according to the blogpost that swimmer was about to cross “the hallowed portals” (sic) of the female changing room against the wishes of one of the female club members. It doesn’t seem at all plausible that an individual would be able to complete the GRC process over a period of 15 months during lockdown. So this was a legal male accessing female facilities on demand. If it is possible to obtain a GRC in 15 months during lockdown then the claims that it is an onerous and time consuming process are completely false.

NP Betty. I do sometimes check that Parliament page in case an update is there. Pot luck really.

Thanks @ResisterRex for pulling out the Cass detail for the thread.

End of 2023? Well, it better not be delayed.
The GE is likely to be Sep or Oct 2024, so that leaves a tiny legislative window of opportunity for Sunak to set out his stall.
No to trans conversion ban or beefing up further of online hate speech laws.
Legislation as per EHRC advice on sex >>> gender.
Full transparency on trans materials in schools/protecting teachers and other pupils from obligation to address new genders of trans ID pupils.
Whatever else Cass recommends.

Say that's what they'll do and enact for another Tory term. And challenge Labour to match it.

May I ask where the Lisa Nandy back tracking has occurred? On social media or in a speech?

Do you really believe that?

I can't really understand this sort of polemic.

It's pretty much unchangeable, all the routine and repetitive surgery etc has been outsourced over the past 30 years by the NHS leadership, and they move around the private and public delivery perfectly at ease with it.

The complex difficult loss making stuff can't be floated on the stock market or sold to private equity because it's only ever going to be loss making.

GP trusts have always been businesses. And doctors are the toughest negotiators out there on pay.

The leadership of the NHS is overwhelmingly left wing.

I can only think that left wing leadership in general do not take responsibility for their own work and it's outcomes.

There is more to come and it was the interim report:

cass.independent-review.uk/about-the-review/frequently-asked-questions/

"We are aiming to publish a final report by the end of 2023 and we will post all significant updates and changes on this website.
This can be a fast-moving issue and it is important that the Review is responsive and flexible. We have shared findings and early advice at different points throughout the Review and will continue to not wait until the full Review is completed before reporting any new developments.
In March we published an Interim reportt, which represented the Review’s work at that point and we have published Dr Cass’s letters to NHS Englandd; including her July 2022 letter, which set out the key components of a new regional service model. We also continue to post blogs and general updates on our website.
There are still a number of publications to come before the final report, specifically in regard to our research programme, findings from which are expected throughout 2023."

The questions section in both houses is sometimes worth checking. This was answered recently, for example:

questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2023-07-13/hl9330

Q: To ask His Majesty's Government what discussions they have had with the Care Quality Commission regarding reports about its inquiry into the activities of the Gender Plus organisation, given the interim findings of the Cass Review and the use of puberty blockers and hormones for children and young people with gender identity issues.

A: The Department has regular discussions with the Care Quality Commission (CQC) about a variety of topics, including but not limited to issues regarding gender identity services.
As an independent regulator, it is for the CQC to determine whether a private organisation is carrying out a regulated activity and whether any investigation is warranted. It is a legal requirement to register with the CQC if a provider is carrying out regulated activities, and the CQC has the power to investigate whether providers are doing this.

Agreed. Labour and the left generally never seems to learn. I have lost trust in them completely.

I'm not sure there's more to come. Only more bad news, a recent UnHerd piece says the clinicians at the Tavistock are carrying on as they always have, the herd mentality is so unremitting with no self reflection.

I thought that was the interim report, not the final response.

I thought it was out for months?
One word finding on GIDS
...FAIL!

I’m prepared to give Sunak a little wriggle room on the conversion bill and schools guidance because I think the final Cass Review report might help knock some things on the head definitively. When is Cass due?

It’s almost as if women have a vote that counts

You’d not think it from the stfu women types lately on here and everywhere for last however long

Time for Rosie's "Luciana Berger moment".

It is progress. But definitely still not out of the woods.

Woolly words without hard action (and a fucking great big apology to Rosie Duffield) are still not to be trusted.

Wow where is this written down? What a pathetic excuse

👍👏brava