Janice Turner on Labour u-turn

This has been happening for a long while. It is the argument that Ivy/McKinnon used to convince panels that males should be included in female cycling races. That people used pronouns which showed that all those using pronouns fully believed that these males were women. And if they were considered 'women' then logic dictated that they were considered 'female'. The sporting policy panel (can't remember which one) agreed.

It was when I saw this happening, I realised that I should never use preferred pronouns over correct sex pronouns or third person pronouns again.

and that's why we need to get back to 'no, actually, trying to pretend that you're a member of the opposite sex isn't normal and it is a mental health condition'

it's OK for grown ups to live in a fantasy if that's what they wish (although hardly healthy), and just because they're wrong and irrational it doesn't mean we should be intentionally rude, or prevent them from doing things they want to do that don't affect others

but it does mean institutions shouldn't pretend to agree with them. because they're wrong. and it does mean society shouldn't indulge them when their behaviour affects others

It all reminds me of the kicking off years ago when TW realised that if they transitioned lesbian women who had previously wanted nothing to do with them would sit with them, be lovely and supportive, listen, enjoy coffee or a drink with them in the group, it was great.

And then came the barrier, that they would not take the next step of taking them home, removing knickers and DTD. How did that TW writer put it again? 'They resist the penis'.

There is no reciprocal care or consideration. No limits or boundaries. You take one step and then the arguments start because you say 'no, I'm not comfortable to take the next step'. And they say 'but you took one so get on with all the others!'.

This isn't a TQ+ thing; it's a male behaviour with women thing.

Several transwomen have used this 'I'm biological, I'm now legally female, therefore I'm a biological female' line before.

The evidence given by using your own ears and eyes kind of spoils the effect, though, tbh.

Oh dear God. 🤯

Yes I think the logic is ‘ I am a woman , women are biologically female so therefore I am biologically female’

It’s not that much of a surprise. If you think TW should be in women’s sport, and lesbians should date TW, that assumes you think that TW have female bodies.

Yes. This is what happens when everyone is kind, and accepting, and believes that the other person is reasonable and has the capacity to stay within the social contract, and will not push your kindness or the enabling to a point where it becomes impossible.

It's called 'forced to the discourtesy'.

And sadly because of boundaries having been relaxed and kind, we are now at the stage of having to say, loudly and clearly, 'no you are not. You are not a biological woman, and this is not going to happen'.

Arguably, it would have been a great deal kinder to have done this at a much earlier point. The reality is that however a male person identifies, they cannot change sex and there are limits to how far they can take their transition due to the needs of real and actual women.

That many of these male people do not care what happens to real and actual women and feel that those women don't matter as they do? Is another indicator of need for real and strong boundaries and limits on what transition means in reality. It may be very difficult and distressing to hear that reality exists, but the fact is that it does, and it is not ok to permit the trampling of other people's rights, access and equality to enable the pretense and illusion to last just a little bit longer.

Sorry, a trans woman is now attempting to have us believe they're a biological woman?!

Yeah: my husband said the same, and got the same response from me!

Yes, the excitement when a Labour politician said female and biological in the Guardian seems to have caused a lot of people to gloss over the rest.

Helen Belcher was at the EHRC three months ago belching away about being biological and female.

I guess the question has just changed from ‘what is a woman?’ To ‘what is a female?’ Go on Keir, do tell us.

OH said today "I thought Labour had gone back on self ID" - and got an earful about why they havent really. So Labour are right to think they have fooled a few people, but it doesnt hold up as soon as anyone explains exactly what they have - and haven't- done. Sorry Kier, Kelly Jay will still make mincemeat of you on this.

That’s really a brilliant development Mrshoho well done to everyone who worked on that

Yes it will be an amazing if moment in history when it does pass. It still needs to be signed by at least 10 members and then put before the house. But in all honesty what politician is going to reject it? How could they defend not legislating to sort out the sorry mess they are currently in? Ireland was hoodwinked and unfortunately sleep walked into the original gender recognition bill.

It will also be bittersweet as the time and expense that fighting the gender ideology war is just unbelievable. Doctors, Lawyers, Academics, ordinary women and men all devoting their lives to this crucial cause. Strange times.

That's amazing. Thank you, mrshoho.

Thank you @mrshoho

https://thecountess.ie/historic-bill-drafted-by-laoise-de-brun-bl/

Three long years in the making

Wow, really? Do you have a source for this, at all? That would be astonishingly sensible, and would show up the 'it's not causing any problems in Ireland' bollocks.

Quite.

If there are any times when men are not women, then any time a man is supposed to be a woman is debatable.

And needs to be. It's been destruction tested on women and there's a body count of women harmed during the experiment process.

Men can be transwomen. Transwomen can campaign for their own facilities. Women need facilities and resources of their own that exclude all men of any identity, feeling, or ownership of a kind fiction on paper.

Meanwhile over in Ireland they are about to (hopefully) pass an amendment to their gender recognition bill to stop Males (regardless of whether they own a shiny certificate) being housed in Women's prisons once and for all. I can't help feel that once this amendment is passed it will open up the stupidity of the original GRR bill. If prisons are unsafe then what about hospital wards, children's homes, schools.

Meanwhile over in Ireland they are about to (hopefully) pass an amendment to their gender recognition bill to stop Males (regardless of whether they own a shiny certificate) being housed in Women's prisons once and for all. I can't help feel that once this amendment is passed it will open up the stupidity of the original GRR bill. If prisons are unsafe then what about hospital wards, children's homes, schools.

Once the vexatious complaints against Baroness Falkner are resolved the government have a clean slate to implement the biological sex amendment.

People are hugely invested in the status quo and expanding further, this really is a battle that takes time and energy

Good point.

Once the vexatious complaints against Baroness Falkner are resolved the government have a clean slate to implement the biological sex amendment.

I really hope they find a way (and maybe the will?) to do this before the general election. Labour's response would be soooo instructive.

Ultimately the difference to me is the attitude to exceptions.

Labour are fully on board with it not being changed to biological sex, inclusion being the default, and women having to beg and struggle for services against this, with a raft of trans and trans inclusive lawyers, unions and Stonewall members invoking trans human rights against women.

It's clear that the Conservatives are taking the opposite position with Kemi Badenoch as the Minister for Equality backed by many conservatives in government and quite a few labour ones too. Nokes is not getting any traction with her idiocy and it's good to see that flushed out.

Once the vexatious complaints against Baroness Falkner are resolved the government have a clean slate to implement the biological sex amendment.