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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"What Is A Woman" by Richard Dawkins - in the the New Statesman!!

111 replies

Qbishy · 27/07/2023 14:18

Wow, I can't imagine the New Statesman, of all mags, commissioning this a year ago...

Why biological sex matters - New Statesman

Why biological sex matters

Some argue that lived experience and personal choice trump biology – but they are wrong.

https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2023/07/biological-sex-binary-debate-richard-dawkins

OP posts:
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Qbishy · 28/07/2023 08:07

2Rebecca · 28/07/2023 07:49

The bit about people not thinking there were 2 sexes until there were black female slaves in the 1700s was laughable. At the beginning of Genesis which was written long before that "God" adds woman as an extra sex. Most ancient religious stories and many folk stories/ fairy tales refer to men and women, boys and girls. Rose writes such nonsense.

As I read it, she was specifically referring to the word "female", not woman.

OP posts:
2Rebecca · 28/07/2023 07:49

The bit about people not thinking there were 2 sexes until there were black female slaves in the 1700s was laughable. At the beginning of Genesis which was written long before that "God" adds woman as an extra sex. Most ancient religious stories and many folk stories/ fairy tales refer to men and women, boys and girls. Rose writes such nonsense.

Helleofabore · 28/07/2023 07:35

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/07/2023 17:35

You’ve really got to wonder how these people think babies are made

what a confusing world they live in where nothing means anything and you can’t tell what sex anyone is

Well, anyone who believes they are a baby is a baby! It is magic like that! And I guess any thing they think of as a baby can be a baby.

Oh… wait….

Do you think all those people who use another woman’s body to produce their child while activating that TWAW understand this? No? Maybe they believe for some unknown reason that the pomo theory only works with gender identity and nothing else.

SunnyEgg · 28/07/2023 07:35

Hepwo · 27/07/2023 20:09

"what I'm trying to work on is the difference between sex and race within bio political modernity"

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

He's saying "pay me and I will call everyone racist for you".

😂

bio political modernity

Fgs

RoyalCorgi · 28/07/2023 07:34

Helen Joyce's comment on Twitter:

"Dawkins' article was predictably excellent. But for the purposes of demonstrating the utter vacuity of genderism, Rose's was even better. Operation Let Them Speak proceeds from one triumph to another."

Grin
Zeugma · 28/07/2023 07:27

So much utter bobbins in that badly-written, waffly pile of woo by JR, but above all, I cannot believe that this allegedly-renowned thinker actually resorted to the WOT ABOUT WIMMIN WHO’VE HAD HYSTERECTOMIES, ARE THEY NOT WOMEN? gotcha.

Newsflash for you, Jackie: it isn’t a gotcha. We’ve dealt with that one. Aeons ago.

Also, this little gem: People over 65, especially women, are almost as gender-fluid as the young

Pray tell, where are all these post-65 female* transitioners? Because I sure as hell haven’t noticed any. Unless she means women wearing trousers, in which case the ‘argument’ is even more hilariously bad than I thought?

  • ‘female’ as a term used for the first time in 19thc America of course. The fact that it appears in Middle English, in the 14th century, is a mere irrelevant detail to the mighty brains of Andrea Long Chu and Jacqueline Rose.
JellySaurus · 27/07/2023 22:30

the suggestion that trans women are all potential abusers invading women-only spaces

Funny how this is a suggestion that we only ever hear from the TRAs.

EsmaCannonball · 27/07/2023 22:21

It would be pretty unpleasant if we singled out a particular group of men for exclusion from female-only spaces, but we don't: we exclude all men. In fact, if anyone is being discriminatory it's the gender ideologues who insist that one group of males are better than others and get to have special privileges.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 27/07/2023 21:44

maslinpan · 27/07/2023 16:57

Relax, everyone, there's bound to be a response in the next issue where the vexed question of "What is a Man?" is discussed.

But we already know the answer to this right? The default human being?

Manhood is apparently not so much in question.

Or maybe it has always been more in question than womanhood until now, something boys have had to earn rather than naturally acquiring with the passing of time and the onset of adulthood. 🤔 I don’t remember hearing exhortations to “Be a woman” or “woman up” or “grow a pair of ovaries” when I was a girl or young woman but I heard the male equivalent shouted at boys and men along with calling them “woman” or “big girl’s blouse” as an insult.
I remember being told that “a woman’s work is never done” and “you must suffer to be beautiful”. It seems like traditionally manhood was a prize that had to be earned and womanhood was something inescapable to be endured.

On the other hand I suppose women with short hair and wearing trousers aren’t much of threat to men and we still care about men enough to target information about prostate cancer at them, they don’t get called ejaculators, or inseminating parents very often yet. Although I suppose they might find it to be laughable when they are increasingly asked if they might be pregnant.

Perhaps the question of “What is a man?” is far too radical, too dangerous, too threatening and so nobody dares to ask it.

dimorphism · 27/07/2023 21:08

We should question a mindset that viciously excludes whole groups of people

Yes, trans ideology viciously excludes women and children from single sex spaces they need. That's why a bunch of middle aged women concerned with safeguarding are questioning it.

duc748 · 27/07/2023 20:35

Indeed. "Privileged white women..." etc. Pretty insulting to BAME women of course, though.

BaronMunchausen · 27/07/2023 20:23

Relentlessly aligning 'transphobia' with racism is central to the Ideology.

turbonerd · 27/07/2023 20:21

That is a shocking amount of codswallop
😱😬😲

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/07/2023 20:10

Hepwo · 27/07/2023 20:09

"what I'm trying to work on is the difference between sex and race within bio political modernity"

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

He's saying "pay me and I will call everyone racist for you".

Grin Grin Grin

it's good to see the old crafts kept alive

Hepwo · 27/07/2023 20:09

"what I'm trying to work on is the difference between sex and race within bio political modernity"

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

He's saying "pay me and I will call everyone racist for you".

OldCrone · 27/07/2023 20:08

MavisMcMinty · 27/07/2023 19:36

I’m getting rather bored waiting for a persuasive well-evidenced argument FOR gender ideology, and am beginning to reluctantly conclude that there simply aren’t any.

They've always known they don't have a persuasive argument, which is why 'no debate' was the mantra for so long.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/07/2023 20:08

Hepwo · 27/07/2023 19:57

Here he talks a load of shit about toilets.

https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/gender-neutral-public-toilets-should-be-the-norm-20160504-golmtp.html

Sex-segregated public toilets, on the other hand, are unnatural social constructs – human inventions that organise our bodily functions according to cultural scripts.

What an arse.

gosh what a pile of 'poop' (to use his preferred word) that is

Contrary to popular fears, mixed-gender restrooms, which increase bathroom occupancy, are safer than single-sex ones

reader, I don't want to shock you, but he doesn't supply any evidence to back up this statement

astonishing!

Appalonia · 27/07/2023 20:08

Such nonsense. Let's have an argument, what is a cat? And another article saying it's cruel and narrow minded not to include dogs. That's about as logical as this bollocks.

mastertomsmum · 27/07/2023 20:08

Richard Dawkins he’s a rum one. Always ready for a spat and not just with Christians

BaronMunchausen · 27/07/2023 20:04

"trans people are... in touch with the inherent strangeness of our sexual lives and that to give birth to someone is also to put you in touch with a kind of strangeness."
I doubt whether that even makes sense in her head.

Academic postmodernism is certainly strange though.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/07/2023 20:03

Hepwo · 27/07/2023 19:52

Stryker also monetising race. This sells well for white American academics.

"what I'm trying to work on is the difference between sex and race within bio political modernity"

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

ThomasinaLivesHere · 27/07/2023 19:56

We should question a mindset that viciously excludes whole groups of people

Exclusion isn’t a bad thing in many contexts. We hear so much about inclusion that it seems easy to argue against exclusion. Also, they’re only excluded from places or definitions they don’t belong in. A man can’t be a woman. A man shouldn’t be in a woman’s prison, just like an adult isn’t a child and shouldn’t be allowed to enroll in primary school.

nonman · 27/07/2023 19:51

Oh what a load of unintelligible guff. I despair of academics, do they make a living from obfuscation.