Looks like Italy have banned surrogacy

They won't be able to - well not if they want to bring them back to Italy. This is what this new law is banning.

If people want to debate fascism and birth control ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Births

Good! It should be 100% illegal everywhere.

This!

Doesn’t this just mean that parents will travel to a different country to still get babies via surrogate?

There are many outcomes that are being collected, and often they appear on this board. You just have to search for them. Recently women who did this for their siblings have started speaking out about their experiences too. And the coercion they realise was at play AND the damage to their bodies and their family lives as a result of ‘altruistic’ arrangements. Because siblings can lose their lives as they know it in delivering a family member a child. It happens, despite people’s wish to believe it is all wonderful.

And it helps to listen to the growing number of donor conception children discuss their feelings of being ‘created’ and feelings as adults as not being able to reconcile the sense of these conceptions. They are also across the internet.

I was thinking the same thing. The argument seems to be that it is bad to ban surrogacy (human baby farming and exploitation of women bodies and economic disadvantage) because it is disproportionately to the benefit of some people. It is similar to argue that slavery should not be banned because it disproportionately to the benefit of some people (and their rights trump).

It would seem one is a Fascist, if they think the real focus should be on the exploitation of the women, babies or enslaved people. I don't really care who is the benefactor at such human cost of others.

Excellent point

No, they have said that only one person , the biological mother, can be registered as …..the biological mother. Because no one has two biological mothers, not even amongst the alphabet people. One small gamete, one large gamete = baby.

It's bizarre to live in a time when the left wing supports the exploitation of women, especially impoverished women, and the sale of babies, because it fulfils the wishes of the wealthy.

@AgathaSpencerGregson Funny how no one ever makes this point to those who want to rejoin the EU (one of the earliest and most vociferous supporters of a united Europe was of course Oswald Mosley)

Interesting fact about Oswald Mosley from an Irish perspective. When the British gov't let the Black and Tans loose on Irish civilians (murdering, beating and burning), Oswald Mosley crossed the floor. He was outraged at the campaign of terror unleashed on Irish civilians (while still a part of the UK).

Is it only Fascists who are against Irish civilians (or anyone else) being murdered, beaten up and burned? Or is it remotely possible that someone can be against that without being called a Fascist. Some on this thread seem to think it is guilt by association. Good that baby farming (compounding the wrongs by exploiting poor women overseas) is outlawed.

Reductio ad Hitlerum

Tedious, isn't it.

It’s like calling someone a Nazi because they prefer the trains to run on time

No. Your approach here is very blinkered and actually ludicrous. Shall we try it back.

YOU fully support the exploitation of women’s bodies and infants as well as what is in essence trafficking. And all because you cannot support any law change to prevent this being brought in by a government you disagree with. And, a democratically elected European government at that!

I doubt believe anyone has expressed support for this government, yet you have continued this absurd attack.

Thank goodness. Buying and selling babies is wrong. Exploiting the health and well being of poorer women abroad is wrong.

Insisting that we state facts on birth certificates rather than adults' desires and phantasies - quite convincing.

We're not talking about that, we're talking about surrogacy.

This is excellent news for women and children and brings Italy into line with most of the rest of Europe.

Agree. I support this specific thing.

There was a range of views on it, just like this thread

Can anyone remind me what the consensus view on MN was on the subject of Tom Daley's surrogate sons? Was it 'oh, how sweet' or was it 'womb renting bastard, the government needs to ban it'? The Italian government does ban it and the reaction is 'but they're fascists'.

you would need to make sure the contract is fair.

And enforceable. Hm, who is going to have the better lawyers to fight a law case between people in different countries, the woman or the baby-buyer?

And that doesn't address the risk of physical (and potentially mental - PND etc) harm.

Which is impossible. No contract can effectively safeguard all three parties.

that would be simplest, yes! i think UK has a good balance though, you can if, say, you want to help a family member, but you can't do it for money. which is why people go to the cowboys in America...

Or ban it entirely

true, you would need to make sure the contract is fair.

I imagine some surrogate mothers can make a bomb.

And some may have life-changing injuries or die, and some may be literally left holding the baby if the purchaser renages on the deal.

I want to know the outcomes for the mothers and babies. Are mothers exploited? Do the babies grow up to be happy?

I'm still leaning towards being against surrogacy, just because no one has a "right" to have a child, and no child (or anyone) should be bought. But I'd like to hear about the outcomes. I imagine some surrogate mothers can make a bomb.