Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Believing in gender is a bit like believing in God

158 replies

Flowerypot · 26/07/2023 12:30

New to this forum so apologies if I'm wording things clumsily.

I've been thinking about how to articulate how I feel about sex/gender without explicitly saying trans women aren't women, women don't have a penis etc. Lots of stuff has come up at work on this recently and we're a very 'be kind' organisation - lots of pride stuff, trans colleagues, colleagues with trans kids talking openly about that.

Does anyone else feel about gender how they feel about believing in God or religion? It's a concept not rooted in scientific fact - it's just something people believe in, right? And you can respect that but no religious beliefs trump protected characteristics etc

For example at work they're encouraging us to state our gender as well as race/ethnicity and there is no option to state 'none' like there would be with religion and I think there should be. The best option is 'other' but that doesn't really work for me.

Not sure what I'm asking really. Grateful for any thoughts!

OP posts:
MrsSquirrel · 26/07/2023 13:26

Beowulfa · 26/07/2023 13:20

I would be questioning whether your workplace should be "encouragaing" declarations of race/ethnicity before you even get to gender-woo.

I wondered about this. Why are they asking you to declare these things? Who do they want you to declare them to?

Boomboom22 · 26/07/2023 13:24

All labels are harmful. Your job title is the only meaningful info that should be on work emails.

Beowulfa · 26/07/2023 13:20

I would be questioning whether your workplace should be "encouragaing" declarations of race/ethnicity before you even get to gender-woo.

fihawo · 26/07/2023 13:01

Yes, OP, I agree. In many ways it's just like a religion.

One of the most important ways it should be treated as a religion is in schools. We don't allow religious believers to tell children they all have an immortal soul or a guardian angel (although "some people think that ..." is OK); we should not allow trans believers to tell children they all have a gender identity.

This then can spread out into wider society. I can respect someone who believes something different to me, even if I personally think they're wrong (even a bit barmy!) to believe it. That works out pretty well for other religions; it would be good if we could adopt it for gender religion too.

FrontEnd · 26/07/2023 12:43

Somewhere between this and flat-earthism!

DeltaAlphaDelta79 · 26/07/2023 12:40

Thats about a succinct an explanation I have read anywhere, thank you. We are starting to go down the pronouns on email nonsense at work, and I can definitely use this.

RoseslnTheHospital · 26/07/2023 12:40

It's a reasonable analogy. Although I think there is not requirement to respect other people's religious beliefs, merely their right to hold those beliefs and for them not to be discriminated against because of that. I won't have respect for religious beliefs that I think are damaging and harmful.

The question "what is your gender identity?" is meaningless to me. I can answer "what is your sex?" easily without needing any particular belief system.

BoohooWoohoo · 26/07/2023 12:34

I agree with that analogy.
I respect your right to believe but not believing doesn't make me a bad person and I expect the same respect back.
Trying to convert people isn't ok and your beliefs should never take priority over my lack of belief.
Your beliefs shouldn't force changes to my life.
I shouldn't feel scared to say I don't believe.