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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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RoseslnTheHospital · 28/07/2023 14:24

@Saschka that's what I find astonishing about this case too, the implications are shit either way, and yet the initial statement from GMP to Sky News was just totally dismissive. Repeating the statement that no officer had "misconducted themselves" or acted criminally. How could they know that without having had a full and proper investigation?? At least the IOPC has been alerted to Zayna's case and other people are now on the case. But what if Zayna had not felt able to speak out about this?? She is incredibly brave to speak out and to push for a proper investigation.

Felix125 · 28/07/2023 14:19

Saschka
So at the point where she was arrested - was there a suggestion/indication/report that she had been raped prior to the police involvement?

Felix125 · 28/07/2023 14:18

Brefugee
You post from the previous page stated:-
"....the evidence was partly fabricated by two junkies..."

So you are suggesting that we should have ignored them.
Based on what - the fact that they are 'junkies'
And if that is the case - do you expect us to ignore all 'junkies' or people who have criminal records? What if they are a victim of a crime too?

If you don't want to answer - that's fine. But its probably because you can't.
Just go back to your name calling instead.

Saschka · 28/07/2023 13:33

The worst case scenario is that somebody in GMP has raped her and their colleagues have covered it up.

But even the absolute very best case scenario here is that GMP have arrested a distraught and drugged rape victim, re-traumatised her, prevented her from seeking medical care for 40 hours, and destroyed vital evidence (evidence of date rape drugs in her system, evidence of her injuries, forensic evidence from her body and her clothes). And they have then covered up this malpractice by falsifying custody logs (proven) and potentially deleting cctv.

Surely the officers involved should be sacked for that alone? Clearly falls well short of what any of us would expect of a competent police force.

Brefugee · 28/07/2023 13:19

SerafinasGoose · 28/07/2023 12:51

PC Goon at it again, is he? 😂

Handsome Neddie Seagoon speaks more sense, tbh.

@Tallisker 😂

Brefugee · 28/07/2023 13:17

Felix125 · 28/07/2023 10:21

Brefugee

So from now on we will not believe any 'junkie' then

Does that include 'junkies' who make a report that they have been raped....?

there is something seriously wrong with you.

You write all this piffle just to wind us up. I forgot about that. My bad.
I will not be answering your utter idiocy.

Pixiedust1234 · 28/07/2023 13:05

The force added: "Officers and staff became increasingly concerned for her welfare and took a number of steps to ensure her safety while she was in custody.
"It became necessary to arrange medical attention and to remove her clothing due to concerns for her safety and mental health.

It would be interesting to see the stats of how many men were stripped and left naked versus women. I hope Sky News keeps pushing.

SerafinasGoose · 28/07/2023 13:04

Pixiedust1234 · 28/07/2023 12:59

I am so sorry @Saschka Flowers

It's repeatingly coming across as the Police are either incompetent or complicit, the CPS is either lazy or complicit, the judges generally view vawg as not that bad so even if convictedthe sentences are derisory. And then others (newspapers, forums, blogs etc) saying that women are over exaggerating, or they don't know enough law, or it wasnt that bad or various other utterly stupid answers. They don't see the rot, or don't care, or are actually happy to see vawg as a way to shut women up. Their lack of morality is sickening.

*Complicit - involved with others in an activity that is unlawful or morally wrong.

The assumption that women are generally liars, or at best are responsible for their own abuse, is the ingrained, socially-acceptable response to any of our complaints about unwanted sexual conduct, sadly.

I've had to learn this lesson more than once. And years after a man was fired from my workplace for stalking and sexually harrassing me, certain colleagues are still ostracising ME for refusing to accept that behaviour and reporting it. The attitude seems to have been: 'Our lovely, avuncular if very eccentric colleague an abuser?' (Unknown to me, he had a long-standing track record for this at the time).

Never. Must be the woman who's lying. I've been punished a second time for daring to report this and 'ruining the career of a "good" man'.

The hell. He ruined it himself: I never asked him to rub his groin up against me when passing or stand leering at my shoulder, right in my personal space, at every work event. He's disgusting, and the ones who supported a sex offender against the victim no longer receive - or deserve - my time of day.

I recount this story not because it's the worst story of assault I can relate, but because of the respose I received. It's fairly typical. My organization found in my favour and dismissed this man. Some colleagues still chose to blame me, both before and after they contributed to damning witness reports which extolled his wonderful character and dismissed me as unworthy of further notice).

Management had known for some time this was going on. I believe the lookout for women is getting worse, not better.

BellsMoon · 28/07/2023 13:00

@Saschka So sorry this happened to you 💐

Felix125 · 28/07/2023 13:00

SerafinasGoose
PC Goon at it again, is he?

Back to just name calling again!
A very serious subject matter as well

Pixiedust1234 · 28/07/2023 12:59

I am so sorry @Saschka Flowers

It's repeatingly coming across as the Police are either incompetent or complicit, the CPS is either lazy or complicit, the judges generally view vawg as not that bad so even if convictedthe sentences are derisory. And then others (newspapers, forums, blogs etc) saying that women are over exaggerating, or they don't know enough law, or it wasnt that bad or various other utterly stupid answers. They don't see the rot, or don't care, or are actually happy to see vawg as a way to shut women up. Their lack of morality is sickening.

*Complicit - involved with others in an activity that is unlawful or morally wrong.

BellsMoon · 28/07/2023 12:58

A woman has come forward about being left naked in a cell.

news.sky.com/story/birmingham-woman-says-she-was-strip-searched-and-left-in-police-cell-for-16-hours-without-clothing-12928762

SerafinasGoose · 28/07/2023 12:52

@Saschka - how simply horrific. I'm so sorry Flowers

SerafinasGoose · 28/07/2023 12:51

PC Goon at it again, is he? 😂

Felix125 · 28/07/2023 12:41

Saschka
Precisely - which is why other evidence, such as eye witness testimony, CCTV, medical examination etc etc, is used

AHugeTinyMistake
Where have i blamed the victim?

If it wasn't them male - then why wasn't he eliminated via a ID parade for example?

AHugeTinyMistake · 28/07/2023 12:24

Christ almighty @Saschka

I'm glad you got the verdict in the end but some people are just desperate to let men off aren't they. Disgraceful.

Saschka · 28/07/2023 12:05

Felix125 · 27/07/2023 10:23

MrsOvertonsWindow
Ahh - the Greater Manchester Police - responsible for jailing an innocent man for rape while the real rapist remains at large:

He was originally convicted by a jury, based on eye witness testimony.

Do we ignore eye witness testimony now and solely base rape trails on DNA evidence?

If that's the case - any rapist will have a water tight defence by saying "My DNA is present because we had consensual sex"

I’m sure you are aware that that is essentially a watertight defence, and many rapists do indeed claim this. Hence conviction rates at an all time low.

I was dragged off the street by a stranger (caught on CCTV), and violently raped (multiple injuries). The rapist was disturbed, because I was screaming so loudly I woken up people in nearby houses. He still claimed it was consensual, and it went to a majority verdict because a couple of jurors thought, against all the circumstantial evidence, that a married doctor on her way home from a late shift might have consented to rough sex in public with a random stranger and then started screaming for no reason. People with less watertight cases get off all the time using the “it was consensual guv!” defence.

My liaison police office told me the two defences rapists use are “it wasn’t me”, and if that doesn’t work “I thought she consented”. Almost impossible to prove otherwise unless there is an impartial witness.

Tallisker · 28/07/2023 11:50

Oscar delta foxtrot Oscar foxtrot

AHugeTinyMistake · 28/07/2023 11:33

Felix125 · 28/07/2023 11:19

Apart from the two eye witnesses who gave their evidence under oath which the jury took into consideration.

And at no point has the victim/survivor stated in the trail that "this is not the man who raped me."

So now it's the victim's fault that the police fitted him up? Unbelievable.

Felix125 · 28/07/2023 11:19

Apart from the two eye witnesses who gave their evidence under oath which the jury took into consideration.

And at no point has the victim/survivor stated in the trail that "this is not the man who raped me."

Datun · 28/07/2023 10:45

Felix125 · 28/07/2023 10:23

Datun
Lol, he was the wrong guy!

Take it up with the jury and the court then

There was zero evidence. Zilch. He didn't do it.

The police are idiots. Or nasty wankers. Take your pick.

Felix125 · 28/07/2023 10:23

Datun
Lol, he was the wrong guy!

Take it up with the jury and the court then

Felix125 · 28/07/2023 10:21

Brefugee

So from now on we will not believe any 'junkie' then

Does that include 'junkies' who make a report that they have been raped....?

AmbleInAnnBoleyn · 28/07/2023 10:12

Defending the police who withheld information in a case where the conviction was overturned only this week as a dreadful miscarriage of justice. I wish I could say 'unbelievable' but, no.

Brefugee · 28/07/2023 10:06

Felix125 · 28/07/2023 09:25

yourhairiswinterfire
But GMP withheld evidence. Andrew Malkinson was denied a fair trial.......

The evidence was put before a jury - and the jury convicted based on that evidence.

Are you saying that because someone is a drug addict and has a criminal record they cannot be believed? Would this be the same for a victim/survivor of sexual offence - we should automatically not believe them if they have a criminal record?

What is the evidence line with the scratch on the face - is the victim 100% certain she scratched his face - or has she said that she believes she might have scratched his face. It could be that she lost the her nail whilst fighting her attacker off and caught it on his clothing. If that is the case then the police solely basing their enquiries for a man with a scratch on his face become irrelevant as they attacker may not have one. Unless you have seen her statement/ABE interview you cannot judge the significance of this scratch.

Destroying the clothing - has it been subject to DNA examination using chemical treatment? If its low copy count DNA, the clothing will be destroyed by that process alone.

The suspect was 3 inches shorter/taller - do you honestly think that a victim/survivor or a rape will be able to give an accurate description of his height to within an inch.....?

the "evidence" was partly fabricated by two junkies who were miraculously let off their charges afterwards.

Stop it. You only add to the impression that the police are corrupt at worst, idiotic at best, on so many issues.

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