Spousal veto - labour proposal , is it really a problem now?

It’s 1-2 documents per every 3 months of the 2 year period. Which correlates to 8-16 documents that must be from a variety of sources. Bit more than a few.

It says "roughly one". So 8, not 16.

As you have seen, I have exposed every other reason given as an inadequate justification or simply not factual.

No you haven't

As you have seen, I have exposed every other reason given as an inadequate justification or simply not factual.

You keep talking about political parties and lobbies. I am not a member of any political party or lobby. I am also not a political activist of any sort whatsoever.

Perhaps that is the issue, you are approaching this as a political activist and with all the bias that brings with it. So you assume that of others as well.

In short, the six months are there to deal with an unknown becoming suddenly known. That’s not at all similar to the situation of a spouse transitioning for two years prior to being eligible to apply for a GRC which then after that months long process makes them eligible to get a marriage certificate reissued showing a same sex marriage.

How about (when this is an option) the husband tells the wife during the process and starts divorce proceedings himself if the marriage has broken down? Then he is already divorced at the end of this 2 year period, so no "extra six months" to wait for the precious piece of paper from the Ministry of Truth.

Oh I don't know.

I for example am not given to arrogantly dismissing the voices and experiences of people who have actually lived through a situation, and providing a lot of pompous heat patting while insisting I know best what they need and what's good for them, insisting my personal reality exists and what they say happened to them in fact didn't and it's all lovely, and then calling them irrational and - what was that other word? Illogical. Yes.

Being utterly devoid of basic compassion and social skills isn't really my thing, I'm usually interested in the voices of all parties, and finding solutions that work equally for all. As opposed to tanking over the top of one group and being quite this much of an arse while trying to press the advantage of another.

But as I say: feature, not a bug. Do crack on, it's helpfully illustrative.

Why is it a problem for a man to have to wait for an annulment or no fault divorce before he can falsify his birth certificate, exactly?

So you want the exit clause removed

Why is that good for women?

I’d prefer to have the option to get out of the contract quickly, as it is breached in my view.

Who is worse off if we get rid of the exit clause? Men?

Not sure why men are the priority for you

I would say it is quite similar actually, a man may cross dress for years, decades even before applying for a GRC, the other party to the marriage needs to be officially notified and given time to make a decision which the spousal exit clause does.

Or the man (assuming here it is the man) May hide his transition by only changing his name on documents and concealing those from his spouse. Again the spousal exit clause gives the spouse a notification and time to take action.

She’s the one that wants out of the marriage, yes? So why is she waiting to be booted out instead of booting her spouse out?

Would you think the same if it were the other way round? A man with a spouse transitioning to a transman? That the man should just passively sit there while the transman makes all the decisions?

The idea we need to keep an extra six months in this process when anyone can divorce at anytime for any reason is no longer justifiable.

Only if you wish the decision on law to be made only on that dimension.

As you have seen, other reasons exist.

I think all you have achieved here is to underscore the perception about Labour being under the thumb of trans lobbies and hard of hearing when it comes to any other perspective.

The difference here is no one gets access to the final will two years prior to the persons death. That is there for the reasons of

• you can change your will at any time before death
• the contents of your will are not required to be openly and socially shared
• and despite many doctors having god complexes, we don’t actually get to know the date of our impending death

In short, the six months are there to deal with an unknown becoming suddenly known. That’s not at all similar to the situation of a spouse transitioning for two years prior to being eligible to apply for a GRC which then after that months long process makes them eligible to get a marriage certificate reissued showing a same sex marriage.

The idea we need to keep an extra six months in this process when anyone can divorce at anytime for any reason is no longer justifiable.

Are you hoping this approach will win people over to Labour?

Riiiight, so it’s being a “support human” to file for your own divorce.

You seem to have a pic and mix of flash card sound bite comments that you randomly use to respond to points, because your posts are often illogical, irrelevant and disjointed.

Change what exactly about their daily appearance?

It's not on women to be support humans for trans-identified males.

We don't have to consent.

You may think the six month period is unnecessary, I disagree and actually the six months is used in other parts of law too. For example say a wife dies and leaves a Will leaving everything to her husband, anyone can put a caveat in to the court to stop probate being granted for six months, even if they’d have no realistic prospect of a claim succeeding, the husband still has to wait six months for the caveat to expire. It would seem unfair to the husband but the law allows people time to bring a claim.

So it's up to him to do those things if he wants his GRC.

Why should she lift a finger to help?

Civil annulment is not automatic, it still requires submission of an application with supporting documents, payment of fees and so on. It is not all done for her, she and her soon to be ex have to do it.

So their spouse can have extra time to leave on top of the time they already had. It’s not necessary.

She can just do nothing and let him sort it out.
Wow, you seem to view all women as throughly passive, with no agency or ability to act for themselves. It’s infantilising. Most women don’t just do nothing when in this sort of situation.

If she wants to stay married to him after he gets his GRC she makes a statutory declaration to confirm that she consents to the marriage continuing.

It’s 1-2 documents per every 3 months of the 2 year period. Which correlates to 8-16 documents that must be from a variety of sources. Bit more than a few.

No, in order to demonstrate 2 years of 'living as' the opposite sex, the panel merely requires a few documents in the new name and/or 'gender' to cover the two year period. Anything from passports to gas bills will suffice.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate/what-documents-you-need

That to be eligible to apply for a GRC you must openly and socially live as the opposite sex for two years.

For the time being. Or did I just dream the ongoing campaign to remove this requirement or shorten it to a few months?

It's like an assault on all fronts. We'll remove this protection because you don't need it because you have that have this other protection, oh look we're taking away that other protection too, sorry!

PencilsInSpace · Today 09:41

Coriolise · Today 08:43

So your answer to this is that while over 2yrs is not enough time for her to “jist leave”, the paltry 6 months given by the spousal veto is more enough time for her to “just leave”?§

Hilarious, especially since we are not talking about abusive relationships at all.

She doesn't need to. She can just do nothing and let him sort it out.

He will get an interim certificate and can go no further until he either persuades his wife she wants to stay married to him or uses the certificate to start the annulment process.

If he does nothing for 6 months he doesn't get granted a full GRC, his interim certificate simply expires and he's back to square one.

Now I finally understand, thank you Pencils. His wife cannot stop him. She has no veto.

And she has the choice of:

. go through the divorce process if she cannot bear it any more and he does not try to get a GRC or stops trying to get one.

. stay

. get an automatic annulment if he goes through with getting a GRC. She does not have the hassle of getting a lawyer etc it’s all done for her.

I suppose if she wants to stay married to him when he is a trans woman with a GRC that would be a hassle.