Page 8 | How can we prevent the trans issue from being a gift to the right wing?

TheTERFnextDoor · 2023-07-23T21:04:33+00:00

I'm really worried about the direction politics is taking, not only in the UK but globally. The right wing is on the rise almost everywhere for various reasons. Sadly, the gender debate will undoubtedly be a gift to the right wing over the next few years. It's the Tories ace card at the next election; the left as they are at the moment can't win this debate. What can we practically do to prevent this? I have tried speaking to my local Mp (Labour), and he basically told me to "be kind".

Hepwo · 24/07/2023 16:41

AdamRyan · 24/07/2023 08:51

So your conclusion is thay because of Welsh Labour (who are constrained by conservative westminster decisions), people are better off voting for a party that's been proven to break the law, is full of liars and populists, and has pretty much bankrupted the country and destroyed our standing and global influence on a vanity project?

🤔

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You would have to live on a diet of Guardian BS to think destroyed and bankrupted are words that in any way describe the UK.

It almost comical reading posts that pop up saying this now.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 24/07/2023 16:28

Wellies54 · 24/07/2023 12:58

I agree. My values have not changed. I see nothing left wing or progressive about gender ideology.

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Me too. I didn't leave the Left, the Left left me.

To be very clear, I do believe it is progressive to challenge and defang the gender roles and stereotypes that still exist in our culture because of historic sexism so that women (and men) are empowered to live safely and achieve their potential.

I do not believe gender ideology (as it is currently being implemented) is doing any of that, and is in fact strengthening these regressive and disempowering gender roles and stereotypes.

lifeturnsonadime · 24/07/2023 16:25

Apologies, I have put safe spaces when I meant single sex spaces.

That Open Culture article is so strange, I'm not sure how it is an example of the Conservative Party being akin to fascist.

To me the use of fascist in this context is akin to calling men women because they say so. It's changing the meaning of words and offence to those who have lived under fascist regimes and to those of us who are really women.

lifeturnsonadime · 24/07/2023 16:20

Appeal to emotion rather than fact

Women you must be kind and accept that women can have penises. You must give up your safe spaces to any penis person who says they are a woman. If you don't agree we will expel you from the labour party and we don't want your vote anyway.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/07/2023 16:18

Appeal to emotion rather than fact

Name me a political party that doesn't do that on either the left or right, because I can't think of one.

AdamRyan · 24/07/2023 16:15

Signalbox · 24/07/2023 15:17

There are loads of features of the current incarnation of the Conservative party that are similar to fascist authoritarian regimes.

Like?

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/suella-braverman-wants-to-cleanse-the-civil-service-guess-who-tried-that-in-the-1930s/

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/alastair-campbells-diary-how-boris-johnson-became-an-accidental-fascist/

https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html

Appeal to emotion rather than fact
Raising fears of an outsider threat and distrust of "the other"
Appeal to social frustration
Positioning as "the Voice of the People"

I think we should be holding politicians to account when they start straying in these directions.

I’m with Gary: This IS the kind of thing they did in 1930s Germany

The ‘activist blob’ email should set our alarm bells ringing – it’s an attempt to politicise the state

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/suella-braverman-wants-to-cleanse-the-civil-service-guess-who-tried-that-in-the-1930s

caringcarer · 24/07/2023 16:03

ValancyRedfern · 23/07/2023 22:16

We can't. The left wing parties need to wake up and realise this is a massive vote loser. It's not that we haven't been telling them; it's that they refuse to listen.

This. Saying a woman can have a penis is ludicrous and no sane person could vote for them. The left should stop making these stupid statements and admit they made a big mistake but they won't.

Ramblingnamechanger · 24/07/2023 15:33

RebelliousCow yes you are right…but the trans law is being challenged in the courts by Vox as being unconstitutional. I think the socialists/left will have to work quite hard to get feminist groups on board.

SunnyEgg · 24/07/2023 15:27

lifeturnsonadime · 24/07/2023 15:23

Nothing more authoritarian, btw, than telling women they are bigots for not believing that humans can change sex and not wanting men to have access to women's spaces and sports. Which is what the labour party has done by expelling women for 'wrong think'.

True. Swallow this lie or else. Yeh sounds great.

RealityFan · 24/07/2023 15:24

I wait everyday for a reason to vote Labour.
Cancel the Tories anti demo laws. Pass.
Reverse the two child limit. Pass.
Have a vaguely rational policy on Brexit. Pass.
Moves to re-nationalise water. Pass.

But...reform GRA. Of course.
Talk about Self ID. Of course.
Trans conversion ban. Of course.
Online anti hate speech laws to chill GC discussion. Of course.

At same time, promising nothing of any principle other than extending laws for a miniscule part of the population, at the permanent disadvantage of a population group 1000x larger.

lifeturnsonadime · 24/07/2023 15:23

Nothing more authoritarian, btw, than telling women they are bigots for not believing that humans can change sex and not wanting men to have access to women's spaces and sports. Which is what the labour party has done by expelling women for 'wrong think'.

lifeturnsonadime · 24/07/2023 15:21

There are loads of features of the current incarnation of the Conservative party that are similar to fascist authoritarian regimes.

Please give some specific examples of the similarities?

Boomboom22 · 24/07/2023 15:20

Shall we have a think? Who supports

Cancelling people
Violence against wrong think
Reporting to the authorities
Doxxing
Getting people sacked
Book burning

Not the tories is it!!

Boomboom22 · 24/07/2023 15:18

AdamRyan · 24/07/2023 15:15

There are loads of features of the current incarnation of the Conservative party that are similar to fascist authoritarian regimes.

In Europe, we should know the danger of turning a blind eye to warning signs. Yet when people point out the similarities between the Conservative rhetoric and fascists its written off as hysteria.

I can fully understand people not voting Labour because of their policies but i can't understand why any woman would vote Conservative. They will shaft us.

Are you ok? Do you mean when people point out the similarity of the tra and extene left with their totalitarian views to nazism they are deleted because apparently a real actual comparison of what us happening is hurtful but don't delete your drivel as it is so demonstrably untrue?

Signalbox · 24/07/2023 15:17

There are loads of features of the current incarnation of the Conservative party that are similar to fascist authoritarian regimes.

Like?

AdamRyan · 24/07/2023 15:15

There are loads of features of the current incarnation of the Conservative party that are similar to fascist authoritarian regimes.

In Europe, we should know the danger of turning a blind eye to warning signs. Yet when people point out the similarities between the Conservative rhetoric and fascists its written off as hysteria.

I can fully understand people not voting Labour because of their policies but i can't understand why any woman would vote Conservative. They will shaft us.

SunnyEgg · 24/07/2023 15:12

AlisonDonut · 24/07/2023 14:33

Even outside of this issue.

What skills does anyone in Labour actually have that could possibly improve the UK in any way?

What is their actual plan?

What are their actual policies and how are they going to find it all?

I don’t know but going by the insults that usually happen the supporters don’t know either.

CliantheLang · 24/07/2023 15:10

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 24/07/2023 14:37

Joyce usually says she is a liberal. Belief in free markets, free ideas, atheist etc.

She also called herself centre right though to be fair I can't remember which of many YouTube interviews that was. It was in response to someone assuming she was leftwing.

"Clearly not a socialist" fits the bill. So does "Not a fascist"

I think Joyce said she was centre right in reponse to socfems attacking Kellie Jay Keen.

About the Guardian article, Claire's Outrageous Thoughts (Feminist Claire on YouTube) does a good breakdown on Twitter. Thread is archived.

https://twitter.com/claireOT/status/1683410132024041472

AdamRyan · 24/07/2023 15:07

MissAnneLister · 24/07/2023 13:53

The Tory party don't care about women. At all. They are actively fascist, want to remove women's reproductive rights, want to remove all sorts of basic human rights, want to remove freedom of speech (it's the Tory party that will result in you being arrested for attending a GC protest, and the Tory party responsible for police knocking on the doors of women who have tweeted GC stuff).

That's without the astounding level of criminal corruption and lies.

And yes they are actively trying to exploit GC believes to promote fascism and the rise of the far right.

Voting for a woman-hating fascist party is a vote against women.

There's a lot of posters who would happily vote for Gilead on the basis "at least they know what a woman is!"

The only reason the Tories define womanhood by our reproductive organs is to be able to label and control us. They hate women.

Great post

AdamRyan · 24/07/2023 14:55

Brk · 24/07/2023 11:14

Oh, don’t forget, Labour do have one clear policy! Their hate campaign against children in private schools. An odd choice of flagship policy: stoking hate and division and making schoolchildren a political football. It won’t end well.

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Hardly! How is making private schools pay fair tax a "hate campaign against schoolchildren"? 😂

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 24/07/2023 14:37

Joyce usually says she is a liberal. Belief in free markets, free ideas, atheist etc.

She also called herself centre right though to be fair I can't remember which of many YouTube interviews that was. It was in response to someone assuming she was leftwing.

"Clearly not a socialist" fits the bill. So does "Not a fascist"

AlisonDonut · 24/07/2023 14:33

Even outside of this issue.

What skills does anyone in Labour actually have that could possibly improve the UK in any way?

What is their actual plan?

What are their actual policies and how are they going to find it all?

fromorbit · 24/07/2023 14:31

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 24/07/2023 14:07

Helen Joyce is and always has been a conservative.

Helen Joyce says she is centre right. She worked for the Economist until recently.

There are many different variants of feminism. Feminism is not automatically left wing and the left are not automatically feminist. After 60-odd years of modern feminism I am amazed that there are still people confused about this.

Joyce usually says she is a liberal. Belief in free markets, free ideas, atheist etc. Sounds like a liberal to me. You get people like that in Labour, Tories, SNP, and of course the Lib Dems. She is clearly not a socialist that is fair to say.

Signalbox · 24/07/2023 14:30

MissAnneLister · 24/07/2023 13:53

The Tory party don't care about women. At all. They are actively fascist, want to remove women's reproductive rights, want to remove all sorts of basic human rights, want to remove freedom of speech (it's the Tory party that will result in you being arrested for attending a GC protest, and the Tory party responsible for police knocking on the doors of women who have tweeted GC stuff).

That's without the astounding level of criminal corruption and lies.

And yes they are actively trying to exploit GC believes to promote fascism and the rise of the far right.

Voting for a woman-hating fascist party is a vote against women.

There's a lot of posters who would happily vote for Gilead on the basis "at least they know what a woman is!"

The only reason the Tories define womanhood by our reproductive organs is to be able to label and control us. They hate women.

😂🤣😂

mirax · 24/07/2023 14:29

HPFA · 24/07/2023 08:52

The left have done much better than expected. Not sure why this is a "lesson" for Keir Starmer.

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Same way Corbyn won in 2017? Lol. Europe is taking a massive turn to the right for many reasons and the good thing about the UK is that the racist extreme right has always been sidelined by the electorate and has no chance of getting anywhere near the levers of power.