How can we prevent the trans issue from being a gift to the right wing?

See I think he's where most of the population are. He wants to find a way to support trans people and balance womens rights. That is not easy.

I don't think most GC feminists actually would call a trans woman a man to their face and refuse to use their pronouns. I think most of us are live and let live. But the debate is so heated now it's become polarised.

I like Labour's statement today. I think most people are happy with the status quo - self-ID is the threat and labour have now ruled that out.

I always laugh when invested posters think they know more about me. They do get rather attached. And are usually wrong.

I have Dc in state school. Great state schools too, lucky us.

On the flip side you rate him as a Labour diehard. Go figure.

You don't rate him cos you are a Conservative voter and have kids at private school

I don’t rate Starmer that highly as I think he will say anything to get elected.

That makes him untrustworthy

So one minute using green in a tag line, the next having a go at Khan for ULEZ

He’s is woeful on women’s rights and has come out with some absolute clangers

Keir starmer knows damn well what a woman is - but he says some women can have a penis. I’d say that makes him a liar - or a deeply cynical man who could say “oh but yeah but GRA says legally some women can ”

I don’t despise starmer as much as many ppl do here. I do recognise all the good he’s done in the past - that only makes my disappointment in him all the greater. He’s stood up to some seriously big organisations - but he can’t stand up to TRA? Come on! He could if he wanted to but at the end of the day he thinks they matter more than women.

Adam, I have no trust issues with Starmer the individual man, it's Labour that trouble me. I actually like caution in a person, I like the ability to look both ways at once, I like consideredness.

I rate his backstory (father a true working class dad who always put family first at personal detriment, and sad story re his mum and her illness, which threatened to tear the family apart).

I actually think we need Starmer's version of calm and uncomplicated after Tory roulette wheel amoralism in last few years.

And I look at his fortitude in rooting out Corbynista/Momentum cult of personality leftism and anti semitism, and see a deeply serious and principled man.

But I'm hugely, hugely troubled by the trans mania on the left, worst in the nationalists and Greens, but roots deep in the Labour Party as well.

I first couldn't work out why a cautious, normal, old school fellow like Starmer couldn't also root out activist radicalism of TRA in his party like he's done with anti semitism.

But I think I have a handle on this, and it's just made me lose respect for the guy. Whereas I look at the comparison with Badenoch and see a calm principled attitude in her job, and wish Starmer could combine his seriousness and unfussiness that hugely appeals to me, with her principledness to put girls and women's sex based rights first.

It grates with what I know about the rest of Starmer that would make me happy for him to be PM.

Always comes as such as a surprise to them, doesn't it?

I trust Starmer actually. He's turned labour around. He did loads for women and children when he was DPP. And he has had a career as a barrister.
I can see no evidence he is a liar or can't be trusted.

Exactly @BlackForestCake "you're am evil right wing Tory evil bigot, what do you mean you're voting Tory? Haven't I just told you how despised and stupid I find you?! Why aren't you doing what I the pure and righteous tell you idiot?!"

Because we trust Labour and the other left shower LDs and Greens as far worse.

The Tories are the most successful political party in history because of one thing above all. Their ability to divine what the people want. And pull out all the stops to provide it.

Thatcher in 1979. Johnson in 2019.
I'd call Blair a conservative, so much in tune was he when he put his pitch to Brits in the mid-90s.

Starmer? He has no idea, he's a pure weathervane, not even good with a soundbyte.

He gets in purely because the Tories forgot their own winning tactic.

It's likely going to be down to Badenoch or Cates who reconnects Toryism to Brits aspirations, in the middle of Starmer's melt down in 2025/26.

I can truly see the gender wars being a kind of Brexit 2.0 in the next 4-5 years. Only Badenoch or Cates can get the desired outcome.

The fake left has spent five years telling women that they're bigots and fascist-adjacent but if this does actually drive some women into the arms of the right, you don't like that either?

Why would anyone trust the conservatives?

Apart from the fact that they at least seem to have some grasp on biological realities? as opposed to Labour and the LibDems both of whose leaders have said with straight faces that some women have penises?

Why would anyone trust any of them?

Honestly, is there any group of politicians anywhere at this point, that you could point to and say 'trustworthy, integrity, honesty, grip on reality, competence, real world experience, capacity to listen and learn as opposed to download personal hobbyhorses/set to receive as well as broadcast, could actually speak to a room as in genuinely speak as opposed to read pre written bumph from a SPAD that says nothing, and answer questions with knowledge and understanding'?

The entire political class is an unholy mess. Professional politicians is a bloody awful idea. But at the moment it's picking the least dangerous out of a really awful field, it's not who you want, it's who is likely to do the least damage for five years while we hope to God something better rises from the ashes.

Why would anyone trust the conservatives?

Yep, voting for Laurence Fox or Richard Tice will make all the difference.

This shit again.
So who am I voting for then?

If "the trans issue is a gift to the right wing" then it's up to the left-leaning side to prevent it from happening. You really can't blame the other side for cheerfully using a fine big weapon when it's handed to them! If the leaders of the left aren't willing to face the possibility of a fight within their camp (and I think that's what the main problem is, as they see it) then they'll lose public support over this question.

Whether an internal fight would really cause harm to Labour in Britain, or the Democrats in America, is unclear. But in both places the leaders are clearly not willing to say "If trans rights diminish women's rights, then women definitely have priority", and face the consequences that follow.

Whether you vote for Blue Davos, Red Davos or Yellow Davos, in the end you will still get the policies of Davos.

It's time for change. Vote against LibLabCon.

GC feminism is an alt-right gateway drug

😂

Alt right gateway drug to what?

T-shirts with dictionary definitions?

Ooh, edgy.

Transhumanism is looking to make the whole of humanity dependent on medical and surgical procedures. Forcing trans upon the population is the Trojan Horse for this.

$ tens of millions now = $ hundreds of billions in just a few decades time.

I find my analysis more interesting. I guess we have nothing to talk about if you consider GC is gateway to the Alt Right. It's totally lazy thinking.

The amount of $ trans related medical treatments generate as a proportion of the pharma/medical industry is tiny.

I find the GC feminism is an alt-right gateway drug argument much more compelling.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001p1nw

Discussion on this topic with Rosie Duffield. The introduction is hilarious.

Starmer is on a journey.
You could say, Labour pains.