How can we prevent the trans issue from being a gift to the right wing?

The trans issue has come as a welcome relief to many who can now be much more openly right wing but didn't want to look 'bad'.

Aced it.

It’s moving in the right direction except the single GP model will just create new business opportunities for Gender GP and their ilk. Let’s see the flesh on the bones, no-one will give Labour the benefit of the doubt on their plans in this regard.

The terms left and right have become meaningless. There's no mention of economics anymore - which is supposed to be the central dividing line. Instead left has become woke and right has become common sense but with a racist fringe. Pretty depressing. I won't vote for anyone unless they offer more than that.

It’s the gender ideologists and left wing parties who have given this as a gift to the right wing.

It’s on them to fix that. Not us. We just need to keep on fighting for women and girls. How the left wing gender ideologies respond, and the consequences of their response, are on them, not us.

The conservatives actually started all this craziness with Maria Millers consultation on gender equality and proposals to move to self ID. For some reason posters always forget that.

No. Labour introduced the GRA which gave adult men a female birth certificate. And the EqA that is do badly worded that people think eddie izzard has a right to be in womens single aex spaces. Thats what started all of this.

Whats happened since is an inevitable pushing of boundaries. And thats not a result of party economic politics, but of a result of lobbying and social attitudes that is across all parties.

This would have happened if labour was in power, only i suspect they wouldnt have allowed 'GC' MPs to speak, much less allowed to contribute to policy decisions.

As an asside, is there a tory economic policy that Starmer has committed to overturn?

My point is that refusing to vote because there is no perfect option to vote for or spoiling a vote when there is an option to vote against is how you get fascists in power.
Nah... It depends who is on the ballot.
If my choice was Starmer, Stalin or or an actual Fascist, I'd be bloody sure to vote for Starmer.

My current choice is two parties who deny that women are a biological category (who will destroys the advances made by feminism over the course of more than a century if they come into power) and a party which, in general, I don't agree with on other matters.

So spoiling my ballot will not be giving the nod to concentration camps and the destruction of the free press.

Not better than the right though

I may have missed a chunk of the debate but this sounded like a reasonable compromise to me:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/24/labour-vows-to-modernise-simplify-and-reform-gender-recognition-act?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Reform, but still requires a doctor to review and agree. Recognition that changing gender doesn't change your sex, and continued, clear provision to allow single sex spaces - for specifically biological women.

One would have to see some more meat on the bones to confirm the breadth of single sex spaces, but at a basic level it sounds okay? Happy to understand what I'm missing though.

That’s correct.

If, despite the Labour position moving more GC - and actually now being very similar to the Tory position - you still insist that GC people should be voting Tory, then people are going to assume you're a front for the Right Wing.

What else are they supposed to think?

We don't have a fascist party in the UK, so they won't be getting into power if I vote for an independent candidate or god forbid a tory.

Of course I have a responsibility to use my vote in the best way I can, but Labour won't change much fiscally compared to the tories. So I will vote for the best of a bad bunch.

The point I was making was that Labour etc have alienated have large number of women, and that is on them.

The Tories are not fascists.

My point is that refusing to vote because there is no perfect option to vote for or spoiling a vote when there is an option to vote against is how you get fascists in power.

Voting is a responsibility, and it’s not always about voting for a party, it is also about voting against a party.

So even if there is no party to vote for by your values, there is still a party to vote against by your values.

A party that doesn’t exist which espouses all your values is not a valid reason to not vote.

Labour can't even accept women are women . People don't want this gender shit . No-one ever in my day to day life talks about it and on the rare occasion it comes up its to ridicule it .Only those few who shout the loudest get worked up over this . People are sick and tired of issues that effect an absolute minority being treated and changing our whole society as if it's effecting the masses . The fact this issue has descended to children is awful and we're raising a generation of confused kids . if putting the genie back in the box means being right wing so be it .
Liberalism is desecrating society where social norms and responsibilities are being eroded .

The left have done much better than expected. Not sure why this is a "lesson" for Keir Starmer.

Yes that is fine. I’m more interested in getting people to understand that they have a responsibility to vote, and not voting/spoiling a vote is not living up to this responsibility.

So your conclusion is thay because of Welsh Labour (who are constrained by conservative westminster decisions), people are better off voting for a party that's been proven to break the law, is full of liars and populists, and has pretty much bankrupted the country and destroyed our standing and global influence on a vanity project?

🤔

This attitude is literally how fascists have been VOTED into power.
I don't disagree with the general point about voter responsibility, but the Tories, whatever you or I may think of them, are not Fascists.

Who thinks that? Seriously!

We do have a responsibility to vote against the worst. The fact there is no best option that perfectly aligns with all our values is no excuse to refuse to vote, spoil a ballot or even vote for the worst option.

But what if my view of the worst is the opposite to yours? Presumably that's fine? (I agree with you that we should exercise our right to vote).

Most posts on these threads come back to the left = good, right = evil narrative given the perceived political superiority on MN.

Oh come off it. There's a bit of distance between 'doesn't align perfectly with all my values' and 'thinks women and girls don't need safety, privacy or protection from predatory men.'

The conservatives actually started all this craziness with Maria Millers consultation on gender equality and proposals to move to self ID. For some reason posters always forget that.

Rishi Sunak has just been told by the Attorney General that his parties guidance to schools around transgender students is illegal because it contradicts the equalities act. This is ideal for them because I'm sure they would love to repeal the EA but it's terrible for lots of disadvantaged groups if they do that, as it removes legal protections and makes discrimination easier including at work. As a woman, you'd be nuts to support that. Look at "Pregnant then screwed" to see what happens to us at work.

This is what Keir Starmer actually said
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/01/turning-trans-issues-into-a-toxic-divide-doesnt-help-says-keir-starmer

He said Labour will protect women's rights.

I know there is massive uproar about the 0.01% who he says "have a penis". He's referring to trans women with a GRC and most of society is happy for those people to be treated as women.

I think we need to wait until closer to the GE to find out what Labour's policies actually are. Self-ID is dead in the water now, no party will introduce that as its a huge vote lower (see the SNP).

I suspect its going to be easiest to maintain the status quo and strengthen the sexbased exemptions in the EA and I hope that's what they do.

I think anyone that votes tory on this issue is a turkey voting for Christmas. The Conservatives are not friends of women (unless you want to go back to 1950s housewife style).

Why don’t you campaign Labour / Lib Dems so they get the op’s vote back?

This attitude is literally how fascists have been VOTED into power.

We do have a responsibility to vote against the worst. The fact there is no best option that perfectly aligns with all our values is no excuse to refuse to vote, spoil a ballot or even vote for the worst option.

If you seriously think women or you personally have no responsibility, then frankly, we and you don’t deserve the right to vote. With rights come responsibilities.

I've tried, OP, I really have - from engaging in discussion with the lab and lib dem candidates on my doorstep, to attending the local MPs surgery. None of them will engage, not one was able to answer the question 'What is a woman?'

The only possible conclusion one can come to is that they are cowards, liars or mysogonists. Or all three. So they will not be getting my vote.

I really don't know what we can do about it. They just don't care about women.

If the Scottish Indyref has shown me anything, it's that adults can vote for whoever they like. You're entirely alone in the ballot box and you owe no explanation to anyone.