Entitled male refused access to female changing area (despite wearing skirt)

Don’t bow out, @Teenagehorrorbag ! I’ve learnt so much from threads like these.

Are they not just confused individuals who are trying to find a reason for their confusion? I don't think I've ever heard of any situations where a man has gained access to women's changing rooms as a transwomen, for male sexual gratification? (Although I could be wrong).

This man is not confused. Nor trying to find a reason for their confusion. There's a thread on here called 'it will never happen resource thread'. It's currently near the top of the threads list. Have a Read of that and see if you still think the same way.

also read up on Autogynephilia. Then take into consideration that this person was annoyed that despite knowing they don't pass as female deemed the fact that a skirt was supposed to give entry to the magical lady spaces. Then consider the safety aspect again.

If a man claiming to be a man wanted in to the women's changing rooms you would see it for what it was a man getting his kicks from either watching women undress or forcing women to watch him undress.

Why does this mans very special totally unprovable internal feelings mean he must be safe? He's still just a man wanting access to single sex female spaces where women are vulnerable and in a state of undress.

Why wasn't he happy to just use the unisex facilities? Why was it so important he access the women's?

I'm not certain at all. I just thought that maybe there is a difference between men who think they are able to 'be' women, and therefore want to use women's changing rooms to validate that, and perverts who just want to look at female bodies.

But I don't have any expertise or knowledge in this area, so am bowing out now.

Out of interest how do you tell the difference between a man in a skirt who wants access to a woman's changing room because they are confused and a man in a skirt who wants access to a womens changing room for sexual gratification?

I get that you support the hotels approach I'm just curious how you can be so certain that this man wasnt interested in gaining access to an area where women and girls are getting changed for sexual gratification?

You seem to think a PP was wrong for implying their motive was sexual gratification. But in any other senario where a man was trying to force access to a womens changing area Im assuming you would agree sexual gratification would be a reasonable assumption of their motive. Why does them wearing a skirt make you so certain the PP is wrong in this case?

Im not suggesting all trans women wanting access to womens changing rooms are doing it for sexual gratification. But I am curious as to how you can be so certain this one wasnt.

Yes, sorry, I didn't mean to suggest it was OK. Just that I'm not sure their key motive is male sexual gratification, which I think a PP had implied.

I don't pretend to understand their motivations, but I suspect it's more complex.

Either way, I don't want them in my/DDs changing room and I fully support the hotel's approach.

Its kind of like sending a male teacher into the girls swimming pool changing room and saying that its fine for them to be there watching the girls get changed because they aren't overly sexually gratified by it. The reality is that the vast majority of male teachers would refuse because they would understand it wasn't appropriate and the girls would be uncomfortable with it. Why on earth would you trust the motives of the few who agree to it and assume they are "safe"? Maybe they wouldnt be sexually gratified, but you would still have to question their inappropriate behaviour.

We may find it deeply uncomfortable, especially if we have daughters, but I suspect these people are 'safe' - if not someone we want to share a changing room with?

If you allow any male who identifies as a woman into female only spaces then you have no idea who is ‘safe’ and who is ‘not safe’. Which is pretty much the whole point of safeguarding.

Are they not just confused individuals who are trying to find a reason for their confusion? I don't think I've ever heard of any situations where a man has gained access to women's changing rooms as a transwomen, for male sexual gratification? (Although I could be wrong).

Oh boy. I guess you've never read the Sex and Gender discussion board before? I think you'll find it eye opening. Yes, it happens all the time.

Out of curiosity, what do you think this person's motivation for wanting into the women's changing rooms is? Why do you think the gender neutral changing rooms wouldn't do? Do you remember the days (before 2016 or so) when you'd have had no doubt about the motives of a man who wanted into the womens' changing rooms?

I don't think I've ever heard of any situations where a man has gained access to women's changing rooms as a transwomen, for male sexual gratification?

Look up AGP. We're not allowed to talk about here so this message might get zapped but it's what drives many men to insist on female spaces rather than third spaces.

Surely in a changing room that skirt would come off, removing the claim to laydeeness?

I'm not supporting them in any way, and unisex should be fine - but I'm not sure I read a more sinister motive into their wanting to use the women's changing rooms?

Are they not just confused individuals who are trying to find a reason for their confusion? I don't think I've ever heard of any situations where a man has gained access to women's changing rooms as a transwomen, for male sexual gratification? (Although I could be wrong).

We may find it deeply uncomfortable, especially if we have daughters, but I suspect these people are 'safe' - if not someone we want to share a changing room with?

I would have been inclined to go into the gym and tell a couple of the bigger blokes that there was a man in the ladies swinging his dick about and could the remove him.

So refreshing to hear about common sense. Well done that staff member. I'm going to email the hotel to thank her for following the exemptions under the Equality Act.

I wouldn’t bother with all the “I’m not anti-trans but…”

I completely agree with this - the complainers wouldn't dream of feeling the need to assert that they are "pro women's rights" (now, I wonder why that might be the case...).

SaleOfTwoTitties

No, I completely agree - and possibly didn't verbalise very well. In real life, men would (almost) never have stood for this; but now - thanks to a lot of foot-stamping by biological males expecting to get their own way (even when they don't even bother to make it clear what their desire is) - it's been brought into the open online as not just 'something that women care about'.

The TRAs are going to have to find another bogeyperson and stop smearing everybody who doesn't jump to their demands as a 'TERF' - which can only be more positive sunlight on the matter, when ordinary men are calling them out and saying "Hey, we male-bodied people (apart from little lads in with their mums) clearly do not belong in facilities that are set aside for female people - how is this not extremely obvious to everybody without an ulterior motive?!"

I’d be a bit more direct and simple.

“I’m writing with regard to this incident at your hotel on (date) which has been the subject of a thread on Twitter (link).

I would like to express my support for the employee who directed X to the unisex changing room. Since X is a self-admitted male, this was entirely appropriate and lawful.

Ensuring that single-sex spaces for women are kept that way is important for safeguarding reasons as well as protecting the privacy and dignity of women and girls. Please ensure that the employee in question is thanked for her work in upholding the law and the rights of women and girls.”

I wouldn’t bother with all the “I’m not anti-trans but…” or suggest that disciplining or retraining the employee is even a possibility.

😳😳😳😳😳.
That would cause me to end my subscription right there and then.

If the clothes make a person female, then when they take the clothes off, they are male, so in the wrong changing room, QED

Fuck me this is annoying!

have you read the post where he says the girl/lady who gave him the correct “wrong” key should be sent for training and not punished. Trying to pass as a hero.
F O you know.
maybe he should do a course in how to human or how to male.

@MavisMcMinty. I agree. A trans woman was in the female changing rooms at my gym. A couple of women I know were bemused by him trying on several outfits in front of them instead of actually going out into the gym area. Since then I’ve learnt about AGP and in hindsight I suspect he was using the women to satisfy his fetish. BTW when a number of other women complained about his presence in the changing rooms they were told to suck it up because he is legally a woman. This is what peaked me.

FatherJack : I don't know a single man that would agree with sending anyone other than a woman, or child, into the women's changing room.

I think it's more a case of the true reflection of opinion being shown on twitter now, as its no longer censored.

I don't know if it's just my perception, but a lot more men now seem to be part of the Twitter/other SM backlash in cases like this.

Whilst it's almost exclusively male-born people who choose to make a big scene about not being allowed to get their own way in trampling over women's rights unchallenged, it's encouraging that a lot of other male-born people are now openly challenging them, rather than just reckoning 'doesn't affect me, so I'll keep schtum' as seemed to be much more often the case not too long ago.