Entitled male refused access to female changing area (despite wearing skirt)

I'm autistic. I was eight when I was sexually assaulted by two older boys in a school changing room. I didn't "get a sense" that they were going to grope my cunt and discuss the feel of my pubic hair until they were stood hemming me in so that I could not escape.

Not everyone "gets a sense about these things" and frankly women and girls deserve better than having to be hypervigilant when getting changed. Never mind "we just want to pee", we women and girls born with actual cunts just want to get changed safely. These reasons are why changing rooms should be single occupant with locking doors or single sex.

Sorry that was me at for @Catchasingmewithspiders

I don’t have anything against gay people at all. But I think it’s strange the government are pushing it on children in schools as well as transexuality. We’re already at the stage we’re not supposed to talk about it.I think there’s something going on and you’re conditioned to call me homophobic for questioning it

Also Annaishere, you might want to take a look Ray Blanchard's typology. He has studied transexuals for 30 years and loosely divided the men into two groups.

Very briefly. The first is HSTS, standing for homosexual transexuals. And the second is autogynephiles (AGP).

He characterises AGP as generally late transitioning, heterosexual men with a fetish, manifesting as being attracted to the idea of themselves as a woman (hence the overwhelming need for validation).

Well, no.

Obviously there are some men who just give off a dodgy vibe. But, when you consider that the majority of rapes is by a man known to the woman, it's fairly obvious that there really isn't a way of telling. However much we think we can.

Indeed, many women fall in love with and marry the man who ends up raping and abusing them precisely because they don't have 'nasty piece of work' tattooed across their forehead.

And the man in question is already violating women's boundaries. He does have the tattoo.

ouch, went and looked and that is disturbing.

Anna was quite happy to share her homophobic views around how seeing gay people kissing is likely to make kids gay on another thread I was on.

I imagine her brand of TRA is the whole "its better to be a trans woman than a gay man" given her opinions on gay "deviants"

David Lammy may have heard of males taking cross sex hormones and developing more breast tissue.

Perhaps he thinks if they take enough cross sex hormones they'll develop other lady bits.

If so, he really is an ignoramus.

Quite how a person could have a cervix without ever having had a womb is a great puzzle to me. Or, how would a surgeon construct a cervix? From what?

You could ask David Lammy, who believes that cervixes can be constructed from "hormones and things". The same David Lammy who called women "rights-hoarding dinosaurs".

I agree. It takes a long time to get through all the layers of nuance.
I remember feeling very nervous the first time I ever posted on this board.
I also remember feeling very unsure what to do the first time I found myself tangled up in a difficult conversation where I was being challenged on stuff.
Hope you're still there Anna.

I'm really keeping my fingers crossed that the press picks up the added twist in the tale that Anne has been walking around the female changing facilities as a swimming official with young girls present who are undressed at the British Swimming Championships. With Sharron Davies already indirectly involved in the conversation (via the original hotel incident - well done to the lady in the Mercure!), this has the potential to get very big.

Anne could well be the next Isla Bryson style poster child, known across the British public.

It's a gift for any journalist to ask Keir Starmer or Annaliese Dodds on camera if they believe Anne is a woman. Hot off the heels of rapist-gender we've got swimmer-gender. Lia Thomas was college level swimming in the US. This is the British Championships at a time when Labour is under the spotlight on this.

Anna didn't really help herself by coming into a discussion about swimming-pool changing rooms and trying to shift the subject to bathrooms. A different, albeit related, argument.

People don't get naked in public loos, which is one reason there are attempts to say there's scope for nuance (not convinced myself). There really is none in this case.

I'm a little uncomfortable at the poking of Anna, many posters will have been where she is now and helping posters up the mountain is much better.

Message of support sent to the Mercure.

Exactly.

Although my musings were in response to a mention of the claim by the person now known as India Willoughby to have a cervix. This person was born male and has never had a womb.

I don't care whether or not "anne" has had his bits cut off. He's still a man invading our spaces. Keep out "anne".

Exactly! I refuse to be told how I am meant to feel about this issue by a man. I have spent my whole life as a woman, been through all sorts of issues, I KNOW how it feels to have felt like a second class citizen my whole life in education, giving birth & in the workplace

The only people who should be making decisions about this are women themselves

A man would NEVER understand this

I don't tend to look around the changing room much as I'm doing the awkward shuffle to get dressed under my towel. But pretty sure if I looked up and saw a naked male in the women's changing room, my spidey senses would be tingling...

I sincerely hope the response of the staff member was not an inadvertent 'blunder', which is how these issues are normally framed, and it really was a common-sense measure to preserve the comfort and dignity of women as well as trans people. It would be a very refreshing change if this were so.

And that the whole situation, in view of the subsequent shitstorm and 'Anne's' regular presence at swimming events, won't descend into the usual self-flagellating apologism.

Also very interested to hear the hotel's response.

I am booked into St Paul’s Sheffield next month (long standing booking) I will be using the pool and spa and I am relieved to know they take this single sex space seriously. Has anyone received a reply to the emails sent?

It's been suggested and rejected. TW don't get the validation from a unisex space. Many go out of their way to find a specific female space.
It's the reason why third spaces for trans people would also not work in any meaningful way.
If "TW are women" is the mantra, then TW "belong" in female spaces.

It's undeniably an aggressive act, as it can only succeed when unsuspecting women and girls are forced to be their uncomfortable and unwilling facilitators.

In principle, it's a bit like when councils open up 'art walls' in parks, in an attempt to concentrate the destruction of graffiti vandals - decent people who have always fancied a go at being artistic take the opportunity; but the vandals usually show no interest at all, because the thrill of upsetting people who have no say in the matter is now gone.

He has been with a female partner for over 30 years. He has used male facilities for most of his life.
We're all happy to budge over for you without question, without listening to our own instincts as to why you and so many other men would want to suddenly and so desperately want to be in intimate spaces with us. This has nothing to do with the damage 'no debate' has done to women and girl's rights, no sirree.
I often wonder what happens on a family day out to the pool/spa/gym if daughters and granddaughters of men such as 'Anne' suddenly finding themselves taking their clothes off next to their naked father/grandfather in a changing room.

So if Anne shouldnt be in a changing room with teenage girls, but Anne was correct to demand the key for the womens changing rooms at the hotel spa then that only leaves the option of teenage girls (and women who quite rightly want changing spaces to be single sex) unable to use the women's changing rooms.

Except for cool girls of course 🙄

Good men stay out so bad men stand out - as true as it’s ever been.

Any decent person who has a penis knows that their penis can be seen as a threat and they they, as a penis owner, can also be seen as a threat. They could be the loveliest, kindest person but the simple act of having a penis means that you can be perceived as a threat. And women know this because damn near all of us has been assaulted by a penis at some point in our lives.

All decent men recognise this, and although they would never entertain attacking anyone, they understand the fear it will instil in many women. Therefore they don’t put themselves into positions where non consenting women will either see them naked or be naked themselves.

No, it’s not if you stop and think logically, use some empathy and use your imagination.

Logical: toilets and changing rooms are divided by sex not clothing or length of hair. Why is this? Answer: it’s to protect women and girls’ safety, privacy and dignity.

Empathy: even if you’d be happy with Anne in your changing room, it surely to god doesn’t take much thought or empathy to understand that many women won’t be happy. It’s not up to you to give away their rights to safety, privacy and dignity. Imagine how triggering it could be for someone who’s been sexually assaulted, just as one example.

Imagination: you seem to be reflexively saying TW in female spaces are fine, but I think you’re saying this to ‘be kind’ and then pretending to yourself that you don’t know how you’d feel with an intact male in a female changing room with you. Bollocks! Of course you do! Let me vouch for my brother. He’s a 6ft tall, very muscly, lovely man and unthreatening. You’re telling me you’d be happy to strip off in front of him?? Or would you only be happy if his hair was a bit longer, maybe?? It’s all utterly nonsensical and ridiculous.

I am sick to {very rude word} of the simpering halfwits on Twitter and elsewhere trying to give away my rights. You can all get stuffed - and if you want a changing room with male people in it then go and change in a Unisex one. Female facilities are for people who are biologically female. It doesn’t matter what male people wear, if they’re gay, if they’re 102yrs old, if they’re really lovely. They are male and the female facilities aren’t for them.

Good men stay out so bad men stand out - as true as it’s ever been.