Lesbian mothers should be on birth certificates

I'm sure theyd be thrilled that you implied that their lies led to his suicide on a thread that may end up in the daily mail.
Not your story to tell.

Right, do you not think that the adoptive parents who I knew well, actually felt that? Because that is where my information came from, they had tried to be kind and not tell him the facts of his adoption. After the event they felt differently, telling him the truth was what they wished they had done. You can discount that if you like, but I am telling you exactly what they said to me.

You need to tell them because it is part of their heritage and it is always better to grow up knowing it from being tiny than to be suddenly surprised by it.
Teenagers and adults conceived via a donor will need to know about this. They will need to know that they may have other half siblings. They need to know because there may be genetic issues to deal with. They need to know because so many people these days get their DNA analysed and go on ancestry sites and fora child where parents have not been honest about their origins it could be very shocking to find their origins are not as expected, they have half siblings they did not know about etc.

As with adoption, where children grow up knowing the truth from being tiny and where their understanding grows as they do, iit makes them much more secure about themselves and their family. If you didn't do this ( about any origin story) when would be the right time to tell them, as they would obviously need to know as an adult?

Thats fine. You can have that opinion. I stand by everything I said in my post, yours was bang out of order.

@WildUnchartedWaters
I think a lot of the hard work has been done there. The parents I know have used books like these and other more general books on the different types of families since the children have been tiny. It then becomes just part of everyday conversation and discussed in the same way as other books that they read together. The children in the lesbian family I know are all still preschoolers but I'm sure as they get older, they will explain more and answer questions the children have just in the same way that parents of an adopted child will need to or or the parents of any other child that has been conceived via donor sperm and or egg.

https://dcnetwork.org/products/product/our-story-sperm-donation-two-mum-families-single-baby

https://gayprideshop.co.uk/products/making-a-baby-an-inclusive-guide-to-how-every-family-begins-book

Clearly my opinion is that is was snarky.

It wasnt snarky. My opinions stand.

Dont think I said that. I said I wouldnt be boasting about any of them (sorry, I missed the sports one).

In fairness children are pretty good.

A female relative of mine, I wont say who as outing, had a female partner who had had a male partner before and went on to have one after her with children involved. That partner remained part of the family. It was put to me that a loved b and c jusr as mum loved dad.

My child response was 'oh , okay,'.

The adults found it more difficult.

I'm not talking about a belief. I'm talking about changing a legal document that says a man is his child's mother.

And there's you disagreeing that I should be defending the legally protected believe that sex is real and that it matters!

Clearly I feel that had he been told exactly what his mother was like he wouldn't have thought she was a positively lovely person. BTW, I am trying to be polite to you, I don't try to be impolite, the snarky riposte from you is really not warranted.
Everyone who posts here is entitled to an opinion, you are entitled to yours, I am to mine. Neither opinion makes either of us horrible people. This is a forum where people can have very different views, and are entitled to express them. Surely that's the whole point?

I dont agree that a child conceived by IVF (straight conception) needs to be told at all.

The only reason il concede on same sex is because obviously the child will ask.

But for straight conception no. Why on earth would you tell a child that?

im sure there are age appropriate explanations as any children conceived with medical assistance like IVF, sperm donation, egg donation etc should be told their origins. Their parents being same sex doesn’t change that.

I agree.

But I'd be interested to hear how you would do that in the case of same sex. Grown adults on here cant understand kt.

Of course they might not be at a similar level. I think the similarity point I'm trying to make is that good parents will ensure that a child grows up from being tiny understanding in an age appropriate way what their origins are; explaining with more details as a child grows . This is just good parenting. It isn't an issue about birth certificates.

I'm not sure you understand that everyone is entitled to their beliefs.

Should they? I must get onto the government and tell them a mumsnetter said so.

I'm sorry that man died but that is completely and utterly irrelevant.
If I'd have been told the truth and it was so grim that I made similar choices, would you say the same? Your word choice of lies is awful.

How dare you take the choice away from an adoptive parent, or indeed implu that the parent was in any way responsible for that poor mans fate.

Totally agree with this. Society has changed, we need our legal documentation to reflect that.

If only there was the political will...

Actually , children should be told, in terms they understand why the biological mother/father can't care for them. I knew a young man who wasn't told why his mother couldn't care for him. He traced her without the help of social services , he found out exactly why he was adopted, and then killed himself. He had been told lies.

Well given you don't know who is posting on here, I'm not sure you can say that. I know for absolute certainty that many of the women who have personally done it are mumsnetters. And credit the site for all sorts of enlightenment. We've even had a book written about our political influence.

And Maya forstarter was handing out stickers saying Radicalised by Mumsnet, last time I saw her 😁

I'm not saying anything about mumaroonis post. You implied posters wouldn't say it to a trans post, and I explained exactly how they do.

And you might agree with men calling themselves their children's mother, men scooping women's awards in sports, and the suppression of free speech, but I don't.

honestly, it's the outside of enough for you to be arguing about a birth certificate, when you appear to be more than happy for the person whose sperm was used to create a child being called their mother!

In sure you can see how explaining to a child they are adopted and explaining the process of having two mums yet conceived with a man might not be of similar level though.

I don’t disagree.

@Hannahsbananas
I don't know if anyone who has done that, just hypothesising that maybe someone might, but the point I'm trying to make is that this goes along with other lies like not telling a child they are adopted and falls under the banner of poor parenting and unwise practice ( for either heterosexuals or homosexuals). It isn't a lesbian birth certificate issue but a good practice in parenting one.

Im adding my voice to those who think the system of recording birth needs an overhaul to reflect that parentage is a much more complex matter than when the current system was designed in 1837.

There are the biological aspects - who provided the gametes, who gestated the child. There will be advances in the future like the child born recently with DNA from three separate people. I firmly believe that every child has a right to have access to this information as it informs them about their body and their genes. And I believe the easiest way is to record it all at birth.

and then there are the social and legal aspects. Who is the person/ people who are going to parent the child, ie take on the legal and moral obligations of raising the child to adulthood. Should that remain at one or two (or more) people? this could be recorded at birth but be amendable for adoptions, and need only use the terms parent 1 and parent 2 if required, as the biologically relevant information is recorded separately.

which information to be used to prove identity and form the basis for ID? Arguably the second one. The first, biological one is private medical information for the benefit of the child. The second one is the one that shows wider society who takes responsibility for the child.

As much as I completely disagree with the Pp, I agree that women being exhausted by the trans debate is ar play here. Theyve got to a point where theyrr not willing to take the time and energy to be compassionate and dont care who they hurt.