Lesbian mothers should be on birth certificates

@flaffydaffy - I asked because we've already discussed a lot of your points at length

@Triplemove I agree with you. People on this thread are acting like they've never heard of lesbian parents being named on birth certificates before and now they know about it, we need to change everything about how birth certificates work, because the lesbian parents are problematic. It's always been the case that sometimes a man is listed on the BC who isn't biologically the father but there was no thread about how awful that is. Even on this thread, nobody is proposing any solution to that problem e.g. compulsory DNA testing at birth. Why not, if it's not lesbian parents that are the problem?

Meloni banning unmarried lesbians from being named on the birth certificate (the same as the U.K. only of course same sex marriage is legal here whereas it isn't there) has sparked a debate around the wider issues around birth certificates. They're issues which have been debated for years within the donor conception community. It's honestly quite refreshing to be having a wider discussion about this as generally people aren't that interested! It's unfortunate that some lesbian parents feel like they're in the firing line. It's absolutely true that the vast majority of DC children are born to het couples.

With donor conception, the donor is anonymous until the child is 16 and gets their name, and 18 when they get their contact details.The child already has the legal right to that information once they are an adult. What could change on the birth certificate other than "Father: Anonymous Donor" and what possible benefit would that have? It doesn't add anything that the child doesn't already have access to.

Not true. The child receives no information about their donor until they are 18 and then only if their mother (am using mother as all children have a mother listed on their BCs) has chosen to stay in the U.K. for fertility treatment. AND assuming their mother has chosen to tell them. There is no legal obligation. Both my donor conceived son and the donor conceived adult in this thread have said they would like to have that information recorded on their birth certificate.

And for lesbian parents having to adopt their child, would you also want a father to have to do that too if he is not the biological father? Without compulsory DNA testing that would have to be a totally optional thing, as the dad could still go on the birth certificate without the adoption process. And that gives a disadvantage to lesbians that men don't have.

If people are married/in a civil partnership, then both parents should be named on the birth certificate as they are now without adoption. I don't think that should change. If a lesbian couple are unmarried, they have to go through a fairly lengthy process which I think is fair enough. It's a massive deal to have parental responsibility!

Not all parents tell their children they used donor gametes and that is monstrous in my opinion and not in the best interests of the child. As is choosing to use anonymous gametes. Heterosexual couples can obviously do this more easily than lesbian couples where it's fairly obvious that someone else was involved in conception.

The eggs do know they are not in the body that made them. The lesbian aspect is irrelevant. Hypertension and post partum hemorrhage are much higher in OD pregnancies. Google is hour friend here.

The point I was trying to make is: why make it complicated? Why not use woman A' s eggs in woman A's womb and change it over for child no.2?

The recording of parents is precisely to record who is responsible for the child. And unless and until certain posters are willing to advocate for listing sperm donors instead of the mothers’ husbands in the case of straight couples, your homophobia slip is showing.

I am advocating for both being listed to bring heterosexual married couples into alignment with lesbians ie the mother and the social parent (father) is listed with additional information about the sperm/egg donor.

I'm sorry if I've misunderstood what has happened in Italy @Triplemove. I've been going by news reports. Can you explain what I've got wrong or direct me to a reliable account please?

And I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by lesbians being held to a higher standard. It is a fact that the majority of children are conceived via PIV sex. I don't see the point in getting them all DNA tested. But every woman who has had fertility treatment in the U.K. is recorded by the HFEA.

I’d love to see your evidence that donor eggs are a terrible medical risk if it’s a lesbian couple but of no concern whatsoever when it’s a straight woman.

FTR we didn’t use egg transfer but I know many lesbian couples who have.

I don’t know your history or why you think it’s appropriate to deprive children of an automatic legal link to the parent who will care for them if something happens to the birth mother.

but it’s ridiculous to assert that “knowing where you came from” can only happen via a birth certificate. My children have a first name, a medical history, several photos and a very sweet essay for their donor, as well as the right to contact him once they are 18. And at some level I hope they will and they aren’t disappointed.

if the children of donor insemination in your life are unhappy, was that perhaps the result of initial secrecy?

And I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by lesbians being held to a higher standard. It is a fact that the majority of children are conceived via PIV sex. I don't see the point in getting them all DNA tested. But every woman who has had fertility treatment in the U.K. is recorded by the HFEA.

The women who access fertility treatment are recorded, but it’s not public record. So the children will only know if the parents choose to tell them. Which I can assure you, lesbian couples do.

But over 80% of the children born using gamete donation are born to straight couples. It’s impossible to track without DNA testing. What about couple who go overseas or move area within the U.K.? Other than DNA testing, what can you do, put out a BOLO to all hospitals? “If Jane Smith gives birth its donor conceived, her husband is not a biological father and do not record him as such”

The majority of children who do not know their biological parents are born into straight couples, but everybody here is concerned with the lesbians.

No straight woman would use another woman's eggs if hers were viable.

I will Google the risk element and revert.

I don't understand how a biological tie to a child is very important ( both mothers contributing, at a risk to the gestational mother ) but also simultaneously completely unimportant (no father on birt cert).

I don't understand how a biological tie to a child is very important ( both mothers contributing, at a risk to the gestational mother ) but also simultaneously completely unimportant (no father on birt cert).

The children who have been born using donor sperm disagree with you @ChokkaQuokka

Do most lesbian couples swap eggs? If so, why?Is this not more risky health wise?

Do most lesbian couples swap eggs? If so, why?Is this not more risky health wise?

I understand that the mother who carries the egg may be different to the mother who creates the egg which is complex and in this instance I can see how a third person should have their name on the certificate. I do not think that these should replace the biological father - but of course it is very probable that this is left blank on the certificate. That has been the case over the last few centuries where some children have no named father. With modern DNA testing it means that a child can trace a parent if they wish - in previous times this has not been possible.

The children who have been born using donor sperm disagree with you @ChokkaQuokka